D&D 5E I'm *GASP* Actually Going to Be Playing 5e in a Few Weeks -- What are the Character Creation Pitfalls to Avoid?

[The_Furious_Puffin]

You know what's even more awkward? White-room theory-crafters who make sweeping claims about systems they've never even tried/seen in practical play.

I don't understand your point.

Let me know if you don't recall any of this.

My post history is available on these forums right? Sort answer is no, I'd taken a break from the game and came back after 5E's release.

Out of context. I made it clear several times. If my (and others) experiences with 5e have presented a lack of issues with whatever problem in question, clearly it's not a universal problem. It's a playstyle problem. So don't blame the game. Blame how you are using it.

For various reasons, I mostly play, and play in, games using published modules in a beer and pretzel-y (literally!) way. This seems like a fairly mainstream playstyle.

Great. Then this equally invalidates every and all claims of anything. So everyone please quit claiming anything is good or bad. Implicit assumptions within your own game are invalid. There is no spoon!

So you want more anecdotal information to dismiss as irrelevant? Brilliant.

Implict assumptions are bad, because no-one knows what you are talking about because there is no shared context. Explicit assumptions are great, because then I 'can see your cultural context.

For example, if you ask me to give input on class balance, for, say, a 3.5 edition class, and you lead out with

"Hey, here is my class, I'm not sure if it's balanced, can you take a look" - It's hard for me to contribute. What does balanced even mean?

If you say "Hey, here is my class, I'm shooting for it to be balanced against a Beguiler" - Well, now I have something to go with.

If you say "Hey, here is my class, it is part of my effort with these 8 design goals to get martial classes up to the quality of tier X (as defined <here>), can you give me your thoughts" I have tons of stuff to work with and can make contributing comments.

Your style of saying "Nah, it's a playstyle issue" isn't constructive or helpful. Why is it a play style issue? Is my playstyle of 'runs and plays in published modules' unsupported? Regardless of the issues, can we atleast talk about the experiences I am having rather than 'nah you're just doing it wrong.'

Heck, the dude is asking for advice on what to play for going into a new group. If the class balance depends on playstyle, that is something we should alert him too immediately as that is the question that we are trying to resolve!

So if the frenzy were just 1/day instead of exhaustion-based you'd consider it a trap? Lots of cool stuff is 1/day, and bonus action attacks are a pretty good benefit for someone with a greataxe.

To the OP: Just so we're clear, go ahead and build a frenzied berserker if you want. The fact that people are debating means that it is at worst slightly suboptimal; if it was really a problem it would be pretty clear to everybody. (I think only Beastmaster Ranger falls into that category, and even that one is close enough to being balanced that a few easy house rules would fix it.)

Maybe this is just me, but I think asking the cleric to use some of his most significant class resources to make your class functional is a bit of a rough ride. Maybe the cleric wants to use that spellslot for his own spotlight time.

I think the real problem with the Bezerker is it's just kinda naff particularly with the other options being right there.
Frenzy doesn't feel that distgushing because there are tons of ways to get bonus attacks, and it's critical as a melee guy that you do because it makes such a huge difference to your combat effectiveness. The Totem Barbarian's take 50% damage ability feels awesome and is mechanically very cool and is right there, so it needs to clear that bar.

I think actually the barbarian is a terribly designed class overall because the options that are not 'bear totem' feel like they suck compared to bear totem.

 

[feartheminotaur]

I want to play in a beer and pretzel game

 

[feartheminotaur]

Seriously Internet?

 

[The_Furious_Puffin]

I want to play in a beer and pretzel game

Now I'm struggling with the concept of people who don't drink while playing. What are you doing to me?!

 

[Satyrn]

I want to play in a beer and pretzel game

It is a fun way to play. Although sometimes we play a caesar and chips game instead.



(a caesar, BTW, is a Canadian bloody mary.)

 

[Fergurg]

Now I'm struggling with the concept of people who don't drink while playing. What are you doing to me?!

I can't drink while playing. I'm a mean sober as it is.

Now, my big advice to give is Do Not Assume. Things that are very similar work differently for different classes, and it's the subtle things that will mess you up. When checking something, make sure that you check to see if that specific thing is addressed before looking at something close.

 

[eayres33]

My game usually doesn't have pretzel's, its a beer and nacho, or booze and taco's type of game. I've white roomed the Barbarian, and its in contention to be my next PC once my DM tenure is expired and the Beserker doesn't seem that underpowered. Of course you have to save the frenzy for the right moment, but if you bail out the party by taking out the big challenge of the day, the cleric should be willing to spend a high level spell slot on you. Now if you frenzy all willy-nilly then probally not. The use of the frenzy becomes tactical and adds much needed depth to the Barbarian thought tree.

 

[Ahglock]

So if the frenzy were just 1/day instead of exhaustion-based you'd consider it a trap? Lots of cool stuff is 1/day, and bonus action attacks are a pretty good benefit for someone with a greataxe.

To the OP: Just so we're clear, go ahead and build a frenzied berserker if you want. The fact that people are debating means that it is at worst slightly suboptimal; if it was really a problem it would be pretty clear to everybody. (I think only Beastmaster Ranger falls into that category, and even that one is close enough to being balanced that a few easy house rules would fix it.)

A trap? No, it is clear and requires no system mastery to understand. Good? Not really. Once a day things exist but they usually aren't the gimmick your path is designed around.

 

[happyhermit]

It is a fun way to play. Although sometimes we play a caesar and chips game instead.

(a caesar, BTW, is a Canadian bloody mary.)

Not quite, you have to mention the clam juice to gross out the non-Canadians

Pretzels > chips when it come to boardgames though, which always seem to coincide with rpgs for us these days. We often end up eating something messy anyways...

 

[spectacle]

Will they? Are you sure? Because not all fighters are even Strength-based. Heck, most probably aren't, given the constant complaints around here that Dex is so far superior in every way. So, no, those fencers and archers are still likely not as good at making Strength-based checks as even the exhausted barbarian.

And even if there's another Strength-based PC in the group, the barbarian is still capable of succeeding at any check the other (equally strong) guy is attempting. Because, again, you seem to keep implying that disadvantage somehow equals failure. But that's far from true, IMX. I've already explained why: bounded accuracy.

Over time there will be a pattern of the berserker failing where other STR based characters succeed. If the people in your group don't notice or remember patterns then I suppose you'll be fine. You shouldn't assume that others are the same way though, pattern recognition is a typical trait of the demographics that make up much of the "gamer" population.