Im getting OD&D on friday..What can I expect?

[DungeonMaester]

Sorry if triple posting breaks some sort of rule that I don't know about..Really...I am...

After scouting the thread I came up with these as the oD&D Contenders.

Classic D&D Rulebook. Printed in 1994.
D&D RC. based off what people say it is Basic+Expert and a bunch of other rules.
Basic D&D And Expert D&D

Ok...I don't know who published the B/X shown in the link or how it is different from the b/x from the RC. If some one can give me a detailed breakdown of each one, that would be nice. Money is not a object..Mainly because the most I would spend is 10 dollars.

Thanks.

---Rusty

 

[Korgoth]

Sorry if triple posting breaks some sort of rule that I don't know about..Really...I am...

After scouting the thread I came up with these as the oD&D Contenders.

Classic D&D Rulebook. Printed in 1994.
D&D RC. based off what people say it is Basic+Expert and a bunch of other rules.
Basic D&D And Expert D&D

Ok...I don't know who published the B/X shown in the link or how it is different from the b/x from the RC. If some one can give me a detailed breakdown of each one, that would be nice. Money is not a object..Mainly because the most I would spend is 10 dollars.

Thanks.

---Rusty

The "Classic D&D" you linked to is something I know of but I haven't ever had access to a copy. I expect that it is similar to Mentzer Basic (the Red D&D Basic with the Elmore picture of the guy vs. the red dragon).

The "RC" is an edited (poorly) compilation of the Mentzer Basic, Expert, Companion and Master sets, with some extra stuff thrown in.

The "Basic" you linked to is actually the Holmes Basic. That is levels 1-3, and is similar to OD&D though not exactly.

The "Expert" you linked to is the Mentzer Expert. Mentzer Expert differs somewhat OD&D in that it uses a different Cleric spell progression chart and various charts like Thief skills are set up to ultimately go to level 36... a closer "Expert" fit for Holmes Basic would be the Cook Expert, but there's no pdf for that as far as I know.

Just to refresh:

OD&D:
"White Box" (or Woodgrain Box if you are a real oldie/lottery winner) containing 3 little brown books. Minimal stat importance, cleric spells go to 5th only, classes are Fighting Man, Magic User, Cleric, Elf, Dwarf and Hobbit. No variable weapon damage.

"Supplements I - IV" With it all added in, begins to resemble AD&D 1e.

"Holmes Basic" I'm not real sure about the rules... some may place this under "Classic" instead of "OD&D". Minimal stat importance, no variable weapon damage.

Classic D&D
"Moldvay/Cook" The red Moldvay Basic (Erol Otus cover) and blue Cook/Marsh Expert (Erol Otus cover) are arguably the pinnacle of efficiency, clarity and simplicity in D&D. Classes are Fighter, Magic User, Cleric, Thief, Elf, Dwarf, Halfling. -3 to +3 stat bonuses (unified chart), variable weapon damage as an optional rule. Still uses the OD&D cleric spell table. Goes to 14th level.

"Mentzer" All with Elmore covers, the red Basic, blue Expert, green Companion and black Master sets. Just like Moldvay/Cook, except that some of the rules get accidentally left out (like natural healing and trap finding). Goes to 36th level. Uses a revised cleric spell table, denying clerics higher level spells until slightly higher levels, but going up eventually to 7th level spells.

"Rules Cyclopedia" Basically a one-volume hardcover of Mentzer, with a few additions, a few omissions and some typos. The only time a complete edition of D&D appears in one book.

AD&D
1e
2e

D&D 3rd Edition
3e
3.5e

Make sense?

 

[Philotomy Jurament]

Why is it the least oD&D in your opinion?

With each iteration of the rules, things were added/changed/removed/etc. The Rules Cyclopedia compiles the Mentzer BECM sets into one (edited) volume. As one of the later versions of Classic D&D, it has the most changes and additions to the original OD&D rules. It's still *related* to OD&D, of course. All of these versions are.

OD&D and Holmes are very close, rules-wise. B/X, BECMI, and RC are slightly different from OD&D, but very similar to eachother. I've never read the "Classic D&D Rulebook" that you linked to, but it sounds like it comes from the Menzter family of rules.

How does buying B/X Stack up to a OD&D campaign?

B/X usually refers to the Moldvay/Cook/Marsh edition, which I don't believe is available in PDF (the B/X basic and expert sets have Erol Otus cover art). However, you can find them on ebay or in used bookstores.

If you get the Holmes Basic rules and expand on them with the Moldvay/Cook/Marsh Expert rules (or even the Menzter Expert rules, or with house rules), you'll have a game very close to OD&D.

If you get the Moldvay/Cook/Marsh Basic and Expert rules, you'll have a very nice and cohesive set of rules that are still related to OD&D, but a little more their own thing.

If you get any of the Mentzer versions (the BECMI sets, the Rules Cyclopedia, and later editions derived from these rules), you'll have a very nice and cohesive set of rules that are still related to OD&D, but are even slightly more their own thing.

 

[T. Foster]

The "Classic Dungeons & Dragons Game" rulebook linked earlier in the thread is the 1994 release, which is a repackaging with more-or-less identical contents of the 1991 "black box" edition, published contemporary to (and serving as an introductory set to) the Rules Cyclopedia. FWIW the same product was released again (in the format of the 1994 release but with the cover art of the 1991 set) in 1996. I never owned any of these (1991, 1994, or 1996) introductory sets, but from what I understand they cover levels 1-5 and have essentially the same rules as the Mentzer Basic Set, but the language and tone are even more "dumbed down," to the point where these sets probably aren't appropriate for introducing the game to adults or older teens.

FWIW, I recently posted a complete taxonomy of non-Advanced non-3E D&D editions/rulesets in this thread at the Knights & Knaves Alehouse (7th post in the topic). By now pretty much all of the info in that post has already been given here, but it might be helpful to see it collected all in one place.

 

[thedungeondelver]

Bummer man.

What it the nearest thing I could buy in PDF form that is OD&D which will go above four levels?

---Rusty

Okay, okay, I'm sorry.

No, try the RULES CYCLOPEDIA for DUNGEONS & DRAGONS if you want an all-in-one turnkey solution.

 

[an_idol_mind]

To paraphrase Mentzer's introduction to the 1983 B/E set, oD&D was created by hobbyists for hobbyists. It is obscure in terms of rules, and assumes you'll make things up and change the rules as needed to fit your game. This is true of every edition of D&D to an extent, but it was a necessity in oD&D. No two games of oD&D were alike. Every single one had its own house rules, different uses of the supplements, and rules they just plain dropped from play.

Due to legal struggles between Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson over the ownership of D&D, TSR had Holmes create the first basic set in the late 70s. AD&D was just being introduced, and oD&D was still in print at this point. The basic set by Holmes was designed to be an introduction to both AD&D and oD&D. Its rules are not 100% compatible with either version, but with some work, it can be made to fit with any old version of D&D.

By the 1980s, D&D had become so popular that it was now its own genre of game -- it wasn't just an offshoot of wargaming anymore. A new basic set was written by Molvay in 1981 to serve as an introduction to a broader audience. This set, while called Dungeons & Dragons, was really the most drastic departure from the game to date. It simplified a lot of the rules, eliminated subclasses like the paladin, illusionist, and ranger, and bundled the core races (elf, dwarf, and halfling) into classes themselves. This version is really not oD&D at all. It's something completely different, but interesting and fun in its own way.

In 1983, Menzter re-edited and expanded the 1981 set, creating the "red box" edition of D&D. This set was written for a younger audience, and included a pair of solo adventures to introduce people to play. The set was broken into five boxes. Basic covered the introductory levels of 1-3. Expert covered levels 4-14, and introduced the concept of wilderness adventures and exploration. Companion covered levels 15-25, and introduced the notion of stronghold building and rulership. Master was levels 26-36, and covered extremely high-powered games, including plane-hopping adventures. Finally, Immortal was for levels 36+, and deal with your character becoming a god-like being. These sets also greatly expanded upon the Known World, which would become known as the Mystara setting.

By the 1990s, AD&D 2nd edition had come along, and basic D&D's was dropping in sales. To revive the secondary line, TSR released "The New, Easy to Master D&D." This was a large black box, and the most board-game like of all the sets. It included Dragon Cards, which walked a new player through the rules while running him through a solo adventure. The expansion to this set was meant to be the Rules Cyclopedia, which compiled all of Mentzer's books (except for the Immortal set) and served as a complete sourcebook for D&D. The Rules Cyclopedia was and still is the only time that all the rules for a complete D&D campaign has been contained in one hard-bound book.

In 1994, the 1991 black box was re-released as the Classic Dungeons & Dragons set. This was identical to the 1991 set, but didn't have the Dragon Cards to serve as a tutorial for new players. It also included plastic minis.

Finally, in 1998, WotC gave the D&D basic set one final hurrah with "The Adventure Begins" boxed set. I don't know much about this set, beyond the fact that basic D&D was done with for good after this one.

To summarize, the game basically involved in two different ways. The oD&D rules were mostly compiled and revised in AD&D. The Moldvay and Mentzer sets began a whole new version of D&D, which evolved parallel to AD&D. Meanwhile, the Holmes set stands as a sort of bridging point to the two. In 2000, WotC squashed everything together to create the current edition of D&D, which combined elements of basic D&D and AD&D, while adding new rules of their own.

 

[Korgoth]

By the 1980s, D&D had become so popular that it was now its own genre of game -- it wasn't just an offshoot of wargaming anymore. A new basic set was written by Molvay in 1981 to serve as an introduction to a broader audience. This set, while called Dungeons & Dragons, was really the most drastic departure from the game to date. It simplified a lot of the rules, eliminated subclasses like the paladin, illusionist, and ranger, and bundled the core races (elf, dwarf, and halfling) into classes themselves. This version is really not oD&D at all.

Good post overall, but I have to disagree with you here. Classic D&D is a lot like OD&D without the supplements. In OD&D a Dwarf was a Fighting Man, an Elf was a Fighter / Magic User (though not at the same time...), etc. Moldvay/Cook uses the same Cleric spell progression as OD&D. OD&D originally did not contain Paladins and all of that stuff. As far as I can see, they're roughly the same on race-as-class, limited set of classes, Cleric progression, etc. I think that OD&D (without supplements) and Moldvay Classic are really close.

Unless I'm missing something in my analysis?

 

[DungeonMaester]

Okay, okay, I'm sorry.

No, try the RULES CYCLOPEDIA for DUNGEONS & DRAGONS if you want an all-in-one turnkey solution.

That is what she (my player who originally sparked this thread) ended up giving me. I don't want to admit it actually is pretty damn cool. And you cant Make me.

Thanks to every one who posted. That is alot of information to wrap my head around, though.

So..I will try to do justice to all the information every one was gracious to provide for me.

while there is only one oD&D, there are alot of editions that came out after it, each with some of there own rule sets expanded on..In a way it is like 3.0 to 3.5. (IN A WAY) So, because oD&D used their own rules in each game anyway, I cant really go wrong with any of the rulebooks. (Except RC, which multiple reports say its horrible written and/or Edited)

Thus, I am leaning to CD&D right now, provided it covers the bases I want it to cover.

My next question is about Classes.

Do RC, D/X. Or CD&D cover more then the three classes? If not, is there a 'magic bullet' Class Cyclopedia? Or do I have to buy up other Supplements?

Also, what levels will the Supplements cover up to.

Thanks again for every one who has posted useful information in this thread.

---Rusty

 

[Philotomy Jurament]

That is what she (my player who originally sparked this thread) ended up giving me. I don't want to admit it actually is pretty damn cool.

I think 1E is pretty damn cool, too, so no worries there. If you end up playing 1E, you might be interested in OSRIC, which is a free OGL set of rules for playing "First Edition" games. Note that 1E (and OSRIC), are very much like OD&D + the OD&D Supplements. If you're interested in OSRIC, get it here.

Do RC, D/X. Or CD&D cover more then the three classes? If not, is there a 'magic bullet' Class Cyclopedia? Or do I have to buy up other Supplements?

Yes, they cover more than three classes. Typically, it's Fighter, Cleric, Magic-User, Thief, Dwarf, Elf, Halfing. The RC also has Druid and Mystic (like a monk).

Also, what levels will the Supplements cover up to.

Do you mean the OD&D supplements? If you're using a classic D&D version after Holmes (B/X, BECMI, RC, etc), then you won't need the OD&D supplements. B/X goes to level 14. BECMI and the RC go to level 36. To answer your question, though, the OD&D and the OD&D supplements don't really have an upper limit on levels; they cover levels 1-8+, depending on class and specific supplements. Sometimes much higher (e.g. the Greyhawk supplement covers Magic-Users up to 22nd).

While we're hitting you with every option under the sun, here's another. Basic Fantasy is a free OGL game that is very close to the Moldvay/Cook/Marsh B/X rules in spirit and tone. The major difference is that it uses "high AC is good" like 3E, rather than "low AC is good" like all the older editions of D&D. It goes up to 20th level.

 

[Korgoth]

Thus, I am leaning to CD&D right now, provided it covers the bases I want it to cover.

My next question is about Classes.

Do RC, D/X. Or CD&D cover more then the three classes? If not, is there a 'magic bullet' Class Cyclopedia? Or do I have to buy up other Supplements?

Also, what levels will the Supplements cover up to.

Thanks again for every one who has posted useful information in this thread.

---Rusty

Congrats on getting a 1e PHB, a very stylish gaming book indeed.

As to your question: Classes in "Classic D&D"
There is basic agreement in both main editions of Classic (Moldvay/Cook and Mentzer) on the classes. They are as follows: Cleric, Fighter, Magic User, Thief, Dwarf, Elf, Halfling.

You're already familiar with Cleric, Fighter, Magic User ("wizard") and Thief ("rogue"). A Dwarf is like a Fighter but tops out at 12th level (a Dwarf Lord) and gets some bonuses to underground stuff. An Elf is a combination Fighter/Magic User (and can cast spells in armor with no penalty) but tops out at 10th level (an Elf Lord) and gets a few other powers. A Halfling is a Fighter who gets a bonus with missles, has a 90% (!) chance to hide in woodland settings and cannot use 2H stuff, but tops out at only 8th level (a Sheriff). All the demihuman classes have incredibly sick saving throws, especially Dwarves and Halflings.

Hit Dice are smaller than you're used to: d8 for Fighter and Dwarf, d6 for Cleric, Elf and Halfling and d4 for Magic User and Thief. But that's OK because almost all the numbers and bonuses are lower.

Moldvay/Cook edition (aka B/X) covers levels 1-14 (1-3 in Moldvay Basic, 4-14 in Cook Expert). Cleric spell progression is pretty fast... they get 5th level spells by level 7 (but don't go higher than 5th level spells). By the time they reach 9th+, Thieves will almost never miss their rolls. You can allow advancement past 14th level (there are suggestions for it), or even just import the stuff from Mentzer's Companion set if you want... or you can leave it self-contained at 14th level. A lot of people like to do the latter, especially for classic Swords and Sorcery gaming.

Mentzer edition (aka BECM for Basic, Expert, Companion, Masters) is mostly the same as Moldvay/Cook, except that the Cleric spell progression and the Thief skill progression are slower. In the Companion set (levels 15-25) and Master set (levels 26-36) some new classes get added. Specifically, a "Mystic" (monk) class is added, and several 'prestige' classes are introduced. At 9th level and above, a Neutral Cleric can become a Druid. At 9th level and above, a Fighter can, if he chooses not to become a Lord and build a stronghold, become a Paladin if Lawful, an Avenger (Blackguard) if Chaotic or a Knight if none of the above is appealing.

There was a final supplement to the Mentzer series called the Immortal Set, which explained how your character could ascend to divinity after reaching 36th level, and then how you can continue to play the characters after they have become deities. It is kind of a separate game altogether, but some include this set in the Mentzer series and thus refer to the whole series as "BECMI".

Rules Cyclopedia is just the whole Mentzer series (minus the Immortals) compiled in one book with a few additions, lousy art and some typos.