Immortals Handbook (aka The Worship Points System)

[Aaron L]

I think that status as a demon or devil should be seperate from status as a god. And as U_K said, some beings could have a great deal of personal power (more than actual gods) but not be gods for lack of worshippers, as in Graz'zt and Iuz. I think that makes perfect sense, and nicely seperates divinities from simple outsiders. A hard definition for a god could include having worshippers, and if you have non, you are not a god no matter how powerful you are. (even if you are so powerful you could kill gods~!)

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi Gez mate!

I had already viewed that site - seemed a bit ambiguous to be honest!?

I have a friend who runs a comic store so I will see if he can get me a peep at some of the Metabarons issues!?

Using a character that can't actually be beaten can lead to problems I would imagine - so I would hope the Metabaron can be beaten in some capacity!?

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hello Aaron mate!

I think that status as a demon or devil should be seperate from status as a god.

Well, I would say that power could be derived from worshippers or other cosmic sources.

So such beings that derive most of their power from worship could be classed as 'Deities' with Divine Power - while those who garner power mostly via other means could be simply 'Immortals' with Cosmic Power.

It seems logical to assume that all power is relative which is why I don't like confusing issues such as Graz'zt having less Divine Ranks than Iuz, when he should obviously have more Power (Cosmic + Divine) in total!

An even more blatant discrepancy exists between Iuz and Azathoth (a Greater God according to WotC). Are we to assume that Azathoth has thousands of times more worshippers than Iuz; unlikely since we know Azathoth is rarely worshipped by mortals. Additionally Azathoth has supposedly existed before creation*, therefore before there was anyone to worship him/it.

*Which again advocates a status of Overgod rather than Greater God...but who ever listens to me!?

And as U_K said, some beings could have a great deal of personal power (more than actual gods) but not be gods for lack of worshippers, as in Graz'zt and Iuz.

I said that was how WotC might attempt it, but I don't necessarily agree with that idea.

Its going to get confusing to deny cosmic power extreneous to worshippers.

Also (as far as I know) WotC don't have a measure of how to rate Divine Ranks?

Though it seems they favour 30 + Divine Rank = CR.

However does this mean a Hermes 60 HD/Levels + DR15 is the same as Pholtus 69 HD/Levels + DR 15!?

I think that makes perfect sense, and nicely seperates divinities from simple outsiders. A hard definition for a god could include having worshippers, and if you have none, you are not a god no matter how powerful you are. (even if you are so powerful you could kill gods~!)

What happens though if Graz'zt has some followers, but not as many as Iuz - yet Graz'zt should be clearly the more powerful.

Again this is why it can't be purely 'black and white'.

You might say Iuz has 2 Divine Ranks and 1 Cosmic Rank while Graz'zt should have 1 Divine Rank and 6 Cosmic Ranks etc. But it should still total up to 3 and 7 (respectively)...or something like that.

 

[Anubis]

Off Topic

UK, I would like to speak with you, but about a non-D&D topic. It's about publishing in general. (This is SERIOUSLY off topic, and I apologize in advance.)

My agent told me that I'll need to way 13 weeks to 8 months to even HEAR from a publisher as to whether they're even remotely interested in my book, and it could take months or years after that to see it published. It is an epic fantasy novel, fiction.

You, however, seem to have gotten a publisher easily and will be totally published in a matter of months or even weeks.

What is the reason for this difference? Does the gaming industry work differently? Or am I getting scammed?

 

[Upper_Krust]

Re: Off Topic

Hi Anubis mate!

UK, I would like to speak with you, but about a non-D&D topic. It's about publishing in general. (This is SERIOUSLY off topic, and I apologize in advance.)

Don't be silly, no need to apologise mate!

My agent told me that I'll need to way 13 weeks to 8 months to even HEAR from a publisher as to whether they're even remotely interested in my book, and it could take months or years after that to see it published. It is an epic fantasy novel, fiction.

You, however, seem to have gotten a publisher easily and will be totally published in a matter of months or even weeks.

What is the reason for this difference? Does the gaming industry work differently? Or am I getting scammed?

Well, a number of points:

Firstly getting work published in .pdf format is pretty easy, because the overheads are relatively non-existant.

Secondly, novels are subjective, whereas gaming products are generally both objective and subjective in content; and if anything they are usually touted through objective contents.

you can sum up in a paragraph, the unique features of an objective product. Take a look at the back cover of pretty much every D20 product for example.

I would definately envision that, unless you are already a 'known' author, publishing a novel would not be easy.

I would suspect that Publishers receive many manuscripts every day and that it must be a time consuming process to read all of them!

So I doubt you are getting scammed - but I don't know enough about the publishing industry per se to know if the timeframe you have been given is an accurate average; but my best guess is that it is probably reflective of the (novel) industry for unheard of talent.

Best wishes.

Yours sincerely - U_K

 

[poilbrun]

Hi Anubis!

I know you didn't ask me, but I thought I'd lend you a hand. It seems many authors have been able to get their book(s) published thanks to short stories. Take for example many of the authors of the Dragonlance Series of books. Many became known thanks to the various books containing short stories in which one of their short stories was published. Thanks to that, they were known by the publishers (who knew the novel(s) they submitted were not first-timers) and by the people who had read the short stories collection. Maybe trying to get a short story published would be a good idea, at least to have something to show to the publisher to whom you send your manuscript. Now, there are several sites on the internet that gather short stories. Maybe this could be a first step...

I do not in any way know the publishing world, but if it can help you only a little, I'll be happy to have helped

 

[S'mon]

Re: Re: Off Topic

Hi Anubis mate!



Well, a number of points:

Firstly getting work published in .pdf format is pretty easy, because the overheads are relatively non-existant.

Secondly, novels are subjective, whereas gaming products are generally both objective and subjective in content; and if anything they are usually touted through objective contents.

you can sum up in a paragraph, the unique features of an objective product. Take a look at the back cover of pretty much every D20 product for example.

I would definately envision that, unless you are already a 'known' author, publishing a novel would not be easy.

I would suspect that Publishers receive many manuscripts every day and that it must be a time consuming process to read all of them!

So I doubt you are getting scammed - but I don't know enough about the publishing industry per se to know if the timeframe you have been given is an accurate average; but my best guess is that it is probably reflective of the (novel) industry for unheard of talent.

Best wishes.

Yours sincerely - U_K

If your agent is charging you money pre-publication, you're definitely being scammed. Otherwise you're not being scammed but may not have a very good agent.

 

[Anubis]

Re: Re: Re: Off Topic

If your agent is charging you money pre-publication, you're definitely being scammed. Otherwise you're not being scammed but may not have a very good agent.

Well, what he tells me is that the process of getting a publisher can be expensive, so I did have to make a "deposit" of sorts that he says is to help pay for some business expenses. There is, however, the fact that the contract also says that any money I pay in may be deducted from any commission I would owe the agency when my book gets published.

Maybe some of you have heard of him? His name is George Harrison Titsworth. I checked the guy out and he seemed to be on the level, but since I'm not an expert, I am not sure.

 

[Godofredo]

Hi Krusty

si es chileno es bueno

Alejandro Jodorowsky


Godo

 

[S'mon]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Off Topic

Well, what he tells me is that the process of getting a publisher can be expensive, so I did have to make a "deposit" of sorts that he says is to help pay for some business expenses. There is, however, the fact that the contract also says that any money I pay in may be deducted from any commission I would owe the agency when my book gets published.

Maybe some of you have heard of him? His name is George Harrison Titsworth. I checked the guy out and he seemed to be on the level, but since I'm not an expert, I am not sure.

Doesn't sound good to me at all. My agent (for my PhD) has certainly never asked for any money from me - agents are supposed to work on commission. There is no reason I can think of why the process of getting a publisher should be expensive or require a deposit. I think you're being scammed.