It's pretty much as I figured then.
Thanks everyone for the help with positive energy, I wasn't quite sure I had it right.
Thanks everyone for the help with positive energy, I wasn't quite sure I had it right.
Immortals Handbook - Ascension Discussion
- Thread starter Upper_Krust
- Start date
UK didn't mention this, but it's very important to know so I will. The IH system isn't designed to make all abilities at a given "tier" equal- just like feats, there are some that are more desirable than others. In particular, it is assumed that certain abilities are there only to be taken by characters of lower status than the ability normally shows up at, as esoteric abilities. An example of this is Cosmic String, which is a Cosmic ability that can be taken- but since all Sidereals (the tier of Immortal where Cosmics are normal) get it automatically, there's no chance whatsoever that a Sidereal would use six Divine/one Cosmic slot to do so. Alter Reality is the same way. These are there not to be taken by Sidereals, but rather to be taken by ordinary run-of-the-mill deities as mighty esoteric powers that (presumably) are rare and valuable.Adslahnit said:
The Perfect Mind and Perfect Body abilities are exactly this sort of ability, only at the Divine tier rather than Cosmic. By the time characters actually undergo divine ascension and become demigods, they should have had plenty of time to go find Rings of Wishes, scrolls of Wish or Miracle, powerstones of Reality Revision, or +5 Tomes to raise the ability scores they really care about to +5 inherent anyway. No Demigod will waste his daily Wishes on boosting his ability scores, because he had them that high before he got far enough to have the Wishes in the first place. Whether or not you buy the line about the SLAs taking XP (and in my game, I explicitly do not), spending them on your ability scores would be frivolous, and typically, pointless.
Hi guys! 
(Krust here)
Slightly off topic, but just wanted to say that I bought two books over the past few days.
Hackmasters: Gawds & Demigawds
Bastion Press: Lore of the Gods.
The Hackmaster book is for the Hackmaster Game System which is basically 1st edition AD&D. I have been meaning to get this for years and its something of a disappointment. Though I suspect much of that is the status changes they apply to virtually all the gods. They have basically upended virtually all the gods.
The Good:
1. They add some new pantheons.
The Bad:
1. The gawd spelling gets old real quick.
2. The hit point system doesn't make interaction better.
3. They don't change the damage system but the hit points are vastly multiplied.
4. Some of the listed pantheons are treated half-heartedly.
5. The change to the status of most of the gods doesn't make any sense (Though maybe it does to those who play in the Hackmaster setting?).
6. They add in the multiple actions of 2nd Edition's Legends & Lores deities as standard...stupid idea.
The Bastion Press book is a d20 book. Its basically the book WotC's Deities & Demigods (3E) should have been. It details the Egyptian, Greek, Mesopotamian and Norse Gods. Okay not quite, it only has Avatar stats. But this is a great book albeit mostly for non-epic games involving immortals (avatars).
The Good:
1. Very good art and lots of it.
2. The Avatar stats actually make sense - unlike WotC's avatar stats. Basically the Avatar stats are half the HD and half the level of the WotC Avatars (10 Outsider HD and 20 Class Levels).
3. A monster chapter (just ignore those CRs).
4. 316 pages so you get lots for your money.
5. An Artifact Chapter (none of them epic items as such but still good).
6. A Heroes chapter.
7. A Spells chapter (non-epic naturally), with new domains and stuff.
8. A Prestige Class chapter.
The Bad:
1. Only Avatar Stats...and all the Avatars are the exact...same...level. But still a worthwhile resource.
2. Whomever determined the CRs for the monsters really didn't have a clue. I mean you have a Midgard Serpent at CR 60 that looks inferior to the Tarrasque...no kidding. You have a Gullenbursti thats CR 70 which a 15th-level party could defeat.
3. Sif's Avatar has more hit points than either Thor's Avatar or Odin's Avatar. A few silly things like that.
(Krust here)Slightly off topic, but just wanted to say that I bought two books over the past few days.
Hackmasters: Gawds & Demigawds
Bastion Press: Lore of the Gods.
The Hackmaster book is for the Hackmaster Game System which is basically 1st edition AD&D. I have been meaning to get this for years and its something of a disappointment. Though I suspect much of that is the status changes they apply to virtually all the gods. They have basically upended virtually all the gods.
The Good:
1. They add some new pantheons.
The Bad:
1. The gawd spelling gets old real quick.
2. The hit point system doesn't make interaction better.
3. They don't change the damage system but the hit points are vastly multiplied.
4. Some of the listed pantheons are treated half-heartedly.
5. The change to the status of most of the gods doesn't make any sense (Though maybe it does to those who play in the Hackmaster setting?).
6. They add in the multiple actions of 2nd Edition's Legends & Lores deities as standard...stupid idea.
The Bastion Press book is a d20 book. Its basically the book WotC's Deities & Demigods (3E) should have been. It details the Egyptian, Greek, Mesopotamian and Norse Gods. Okay not quite, it only has Avatar stats. But this is a great book albeit mostly for non-epic games involving immortals (avatars).
The Good:
1. Very good art and lots of it.
2. The Avatar stats actually make sense - unlike WotC's avatar stats. Basically the Avatar stats are half the HD and half the level of the WotC Avatars (10 Outsider HD and 20 Class Levels).
3. A monster chapter (just ignore those CRs).
4. 316 pages so you get lots for your money.
5. An Artifact Chapter (none of them epic items as such but still good).
6. A Heroes chapter.
7. A Spells chapter (non-epic naturally), with new domains and stuff.
8. A Prestige Class chapter.
The Bad:
1. Only Avatar Stats...and all the Avatars are the exact...same...level. But still a worthwhile resource.
2. Whomever determined the CRs for the monsters really didn't have a clue. I mean you have a Midgard Serpent at CR 60 that looks inferior to the Tarrasque...no kidding. You have a Gullenbursti thats CR 70 which a 15th-level party could defeat.
3. Sif's Avatar has more hit points than either Thor's Avatar or Odin's Avatar. A few silly things like that.
Alzrius
The EN World kitten
U_K, if you're getting on the internet via S'mon's computer, why don't you log into your own EN World account? It's not like you can only log onto "Upper_Krust" from your home computer.
That said, I've got both of the books you mentioned. I didn't have much reaction to Gawds & Demigawds mechanics, since I never played 1E. That said, I enjoyed the fluff, since it presented a much more "realistic" presentation of gods who exist in a multi-pantheon universe. It has them dealing with other members of their pantheon, other pantheons, shared effects across the world and the planes, etc. I really enjoy that, as it helps create a more cohesive feel for the world.
As a note, I think the reason for the divine levels being altered is given in the beginning. Something about a huge multiversal cataclysm that shook things up across all the pantheons, causing a large number of deities to lose worshippers/power and let other gods pick it up.
As for Lore of the Gods...I didn't like most of their mechanics, as they made only a few changes to the Divine SRD (nothing worthwhile, and just enough changes to alter things without having anything stand out). But what really got me was the fluff information on the gods was all presented from a mythological standpoint. There's no evidence whatsoever of things being a "unified universe" like in the HackMaster book. To a degree, this is acceptable, but they ignore even significant events in D&D, like archdevils, demon princes, etc. who'd be players at the divine level - a good example is your write-up of Surtur, since it gives a sufficient nod to planar politics without becoming mired in it. LotG failed hard in that regard.
...which, come to think of it, makes me want to see Gods & Monsters that much sooner.
That said, I've got both of the books you mentioned. I didn't have much reaction to Gawds & Demigawds mechanics, since I never played 1E. That said, I enjoyed the fluff, since it presented a much more "realistic" presentation of gods who exist in a multi-pantheon universe. It has them dealing with other members of their pantheon, other pantheons, shared effects across the world and the planes, etc. I really enjoy that, as it helps create a more cohesive feel for the world.
As a note, I think the reason for the divine levels being altered is given in the beginning. Something about a huge multiversal cataclysm that shook things up across all the pantheons, causing a large number of deities to lose worshippers/power and let other gods pick it up.
As for Lore of the Gods...I didn't like most of their mechanics, as they made only a few changes to the Divine SRD (nothing worthwhile, and just enough changes to alter things without having anything stand out). But what really got me was the fluff information on the gods was all presented from a mythological standpoint. There's no evidence whatsoever of things being a "unified universe" like in the HackMaster book. To a degree, this is acceptable, but they ignore even significant events in D&D, like archdevils, demon princes, etc. who'd be players at the divine level - a good example is your write-up of Surtur, since it gives a sufficient nod to planar politics without becoming mired in it. LotG failed hard in that regard.
...which, come to think of it, makes me want to see Gods & Monsters that much sooner.
EarthSeraphEdna
Explorer
Very quick question: should the Great [Ability Score] epic feats increase the ability score by only 1, or by 2?
EarthSeraphEdna
Explorer
Alzrius said:If you mean the ones in the SRD, they seem pretty clear-cut about increasing the relevant ability score by 1 point.
Page 27 explains that +2 to all six ability scores is worth +1 ECL, and a single divine ability is worth +1 ECL, so 1/6 of a divine ability (an [epic] feat) should give a +2 bonus to a single abilitty score. Furthermore, in the example handicap given in page 97, a divine ability can increase a single ability score by 12, and since 1 divine ability = 6 (epic) feats, an epic feat should increase a single ability score by 2.
Also, page 23 says that the divine aura radius of an immortal is medium range (100 feet + 10 feet per HD), yet the listed divine aura radius for a hero-deity or quasi-deity is short range (25 feet + 5 feet per 2 HD). Which one is it? With this in mind, can a hero-deity or quasi-deity take cosmic abilities as esoteric abilities?
EarthSeraphEdna
Explorer
Since an immortal's built-in "immortality" is basically just a combination of six epic feats (Haleness, Hibernate, Incorruptible Body, Inedia, Insomnious, and Terrene Body), you could probably say it's worth a single divine ability, and an immortal without that immortality would have a divine handicap (getting himself a bonus divine ability slot in exchange). But what about an immortal's immunity to natural effects? Is that roughly worth a divine ability, or is it perhaps worth two divine abilities?
I wanted to make some characters without the immortality and without the immunity to natural effects (I know that you can only have one divine handicap, but I'm ignoring that rule for character concept), and I just wanted to know how many bonus divine ability slots a character would get for giving up these two things.
I wanted to make some characters without the immortality and without the immunity to natural effects (I know that you can only have one divine handicap, but I'm ignoring that rule for character concept), and I just wanted to know how many bonus divine ability slots a character would get for giving up these two things.
Thats a good question.
I'd also like to know what Grant Spells is worth. I'm interested in creating a pretender type being who pretends to be a deity, but who's power is not inherently tied to quintessence, but rather his own innate psionic ability that is never truly depleted.
I'd love to see a template for false deities or a Dice Freaks style cosmic being.
I'd also like to know what Grant Spells is worth. I'm interested in creating a pretender type being who pretends to be a deity, but who's power is not inherently tied to quintessence, but rather his own innate psionic ability that is never truly depleted.
I'd love to see a template for false deities or a Dice Freaks style cosmic being.
