Immortals Handbook - Ascension Discussion

[Upper_Krust]

Hey all!

Okay, 3.0 is almost ready, I am just having a mental block trying to come up with Hazards for realms of knowledge and luck. Any suggestions? I'm sure I'll figure something out before the end of the day, so no big deal.

Thanks for the continued feedback guys, I have sort of went with an amalgam of Alzrius and Jedrious comments. For instance I am not so sure Power Resistance is really necessary. etc.

 

[jedrious]

The changes I listed for the Psionics weren't meant to spark a debate. They're just me acting in my capacity as the book's editor; these are the changes that (I believe) best represent the rules as written, best mesh with other rules, and best work in terms of stylistic presentation.

Debates, are fine, I like debates, and honestly, if we stay as cordial as we have been, it'll stay a debate and not spiral into an arguement

That might be so, but the RAW has them being transparent. Forcibly deviating from that specifically for this product is going to make this more difficult for people who want to use it that way. There's already a section on making psionics and magic not be transparent within the XPH for those that want things that way. Hence, I don't think it's a good idea to force that interpretation on other people.

Perhaps a middle ground, having a sidebar for differences should the users choose to not have transparency?

By that logic, any metamagicked spell should also bypass things that stop spells of a lower level (e.g. that maximized fireball should overcome Spell Immunity if it's taken twice). It's also, as I said, ambiguous as it's worded now.

The problem is that with Psionics, you tend to use your lower level powers augmented as attack forms and your higher level for tactics, also note that magic has heighten spell to allow them to bypass, whereas psionics does not

Magic Pariah stops magic from working in your realm, though since sidereals are always considered to be in their divine realm, I suppose that'd be true there.

I suppose with full transparency in effect we need to specify that Magic Pariah is an exception to transparency (much like the anti-psionic feats do)

Irregardless, there's still the problem that mortals taking that domain would find little benefit from it. Likewise, not everyone who has the portfolio will necessarily be an Old One. As it stands, magic spell-like abilities into psi-like abilities isn't much of a change. I recommended that any immortal taking that portfolio have that (and have their spell resistance be power resistance) automatically.

We'll have to work on that, we want the change to be made, but we also don't want it to be the longest entry for a Disciple power in the book.

I'm not so much concerned with how psionics is "themed" as I am with the rules, here. The existing power states that your powers affect "psionics immune targets." To the best of my knowledge, there are no such creatures that have blanket psionic immunity - the closest equivalent are golems (and similar constructs) that have magic immunity, and that'd apply to psionics under the transparency rules (though by your standard, they wouldn't even have that). Simply put, the powers for demi-deities, as written, let's them breach an immunity that doesn't seem to exist.

I point you to the Psion-Killer an SRD monster with Psionic Immunity

I don't think this'd make a good domain power, again simply because from a mortal perspective that'd be relatively useful - doubly so since, as you noted, under the transparency rules that'd be useless.

Perhaps mimicing the magic domain and having you able to activate psionic items as a psion of half your level would be an appropriate domain power

 

[Omeganian]

I am not sure if I understand you correctly, but theoretically, it's possible, though (VERY) unlikely, that in a given time, instead of a 1* 10^-10 of a radioactive isotope, all of it will decay. A zone with such an effect in a realm of luck (or bad luck) can cause considerable damage or ability damage from the inside, and will require a nice roll to recognize.

 

[jedrious]

Hey all!

Okay, 3.0 is almost ready, I am just having a mental block trying to come up with Hazards for realms of knowledge and luck. Any suggestions? I'm sure I'll figure something out before the end of the day, so no big deal.

Thanks for the continued feedback guys, I have sort of went with an amalgam of Alzrius and Jedrious comments. For instance I am not so sure Power Resistance is really necessary. etc.

a Hazzard for the Knowledge dominion could easily be similar to the effects of the river styx, areas that drain knowledge from those sucumbing to the hazard and giving that knowledge to the deity

a Hazzard for the Luck dominion could easily be the revers of the Quixotic ability, everyone rolls twice and takes the lower roll

 

[jedrious]

Hey all!

Okay, 3.0 is almost ready, I am just having a mental block trying to come up with Hazards for realms of knowledge and luck. Any suggestions? I'm sure I'll figure something out before the end of the day, so no big deal.

Thanks for the continued feedback guys, I have sort of went with an amalgam of Alzrius and Jedrious comments. For instance I am not so sure Power Resistance is really necessary. etc.

ok, my dm showed me their copy of 2.95 and I have a couple points of errata for the appendix:

the Superscript A on Deja Vu, Share Pain, Forced, Psychic Crush and Disintegrate, Psionic are important as they denote that the powers are augmentable

the Table entries for Divine Manifester and Divine Metafaculty should replace "the" with "your"

 

[jedrious]

Also just noticed:
Heavenly Body has it's normal as :Swarm of Arrows allows for one attack to be made against every target within 30 feet

 

[Alzrius]

Debates, are fine, I like debates, and honestly, if we stay as cordial as we have been, it'll stay a debate and not spiral into an arguement

For discussions I agree, but - and I feel a bit uncomfortable saying this - for editing a book I don't think that debating the points is necessarily the best way. At some point, there needs to be one voice that's the sole arbiter of what's what. Of course, here that's U_K, since it is his book, but again, I'm the guy listed as being the book's editor. So when it's released, if something there seems to not jive with the rest of the d20 RAW, people wonder why I wasn't doing my job.

Perhaps a middle ground, having a sidebar for differences should the users choose to not have transparency?

Again, if this were a debate, I'd probably say that's fine. I don't think that's best for the book, however. The XPH - which they'll already have with them if they're using the psionics rules - already outlines those rules far better and more completely than a sidebar here would.

The problem is that with Psionics, you tend to use your lower level powers augmented as attack forms and your higher level for tactics, also note that magic has heighten spell to allow them to bypass, whereas psionics does not

I'll concede the point regarding the lack of a Heighten Power feat, but that said, I still think it'd be too difficult to accurately relay that regarding power points, and augmenting, but not power points spent on metapsionic feats, etc. It's imperfect, but I'd rather err on the simpler side.

I suppose with full transparency in effect we need to specify that Magic Pariah is an exception to transparency (much like the anti-psionic feats do)

I can live with that.

We'll have to work on that, we want the change to be made, but we also don't want it to be the longest entry for a Disciple power in the book.

I still think the best thing for that domain is giving them Use Psionic Device (and maybe one or two other psionic feats) as class skills also. Letting them use psionic items, as you suggested, might also help.

I point you to the Psion-Killer an SRD monster with Psionic Immunity

That seems to be the only monster with psionic immunity. Having a divine power that lets them breach the immunities of just one creature is ridiculous.

Thanks for the continued feedback guys, I have sort of went with an amalgam of Alzrius and Jedrious comments. For instance I am not so sure Power Resistance is really necessary. etc.

It's a minor change, U_K, but it helps to keep closer in terms of presentation to existing psionic material. It's one of those minor changes that I think helps make the presentation better. Again, it wouldn't be a power per se, but more of a note saying that anyone who takes the portfolio has those changes made.

 

[jedrious]

another note in Combining Effects:

as written you have the user dividing up the damage dice between the effects, this can be misleading, for example a Demigod (30 HD) has Atomic Hand and Bane Hand, with it stated as divide the dice up, you could have them dealing (my math might be slightly off, assigning dice to radiation and wind effect is annoying) 1d6 devoted to Atomic Effect and 75d12 assigned to Bane Effect, consider revising to dividing up your Hit Dice among your effects to determine effect

 

[jedrious]

I'll concede the point regarding the lack of a Heighten Power feat, but that said, I still think it'd be too difficult to accurately relay that regarding power points, and augmenting, but not power points spent on metapsionic feats, etc. It's imperfect, but I'd rather err on the simpler side.

a resolution:

Echelons of Power [Epic, Psionic]
Prerequisites: Ability to Manifest 9th level psionic powers, Psicraft 25 ranks
Benefit: When augmenting a power, every 2 power points spent to augment the power increases the effective level of the power for all purposes except for saving throw DCs.

That seems to be the only monster with psionic immunity. Having a divine power that lets them breach the immunities of just one creature is ridiculous.

my point was that the ability exists, also there is a divine ability we're placing in the appendix that provides immunity

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey there!

another note in Combining Effects:

as written you have the user dividing up the damage dice between the effects, this can be misleading, for example a Demigod (30 HD) has Atomic Hand and Bane Hand, with it stated as divide the dice up, you could have them dealing (my math might be slightly off, assigning dice to radiation and wind effect is annoying) 1d6 devoted to Atomic Effect and 75d12 assigned to Bane Effect, consider revising to dividing up your Hit Dice among your effects to determine effect

I only give people the toys, what they do with them is their business.

I don't know what you are saying here, that using a multiple power effect abilities used in tandem with other effects can be complicated...of course it can be. But if the PC in question has got to the point where they have both Bane Effect and Atomic Effect then let them have their fun...and if they can't work it all out within one minute tell them they lose a round.