Immortals Handbook - Epic Bestiary (Epic Monster Discussion)

[Fieari]

Oooh, I hadn't considered elemental! That would be -perfect- I think. The type and subtype would be "Elemental (Math)" with the moigno traits above being renamed "Math Subtype traits".

Okay, let's try to revise the list a little.

Species:
Natural
Rational
Negative
Algebraic
Irrational
Transcendental
Normal
(Real? Maybe better to just describe all of the above as reals... a hierarchical thing)

Templates:
Imaginary (0 real component, the imaginary component has the traits of the base moigno)
Complex (Lich equiv)
Quaternion (Demilich equiv)
Octonion (Akalich equiv)
Matrix (Vampire equiv?)
Invertable Matrix (Vampire lord equiv?)
Semidefinite +/- Matrix (Nosferatu equiv?)
Definite +/- Matrix (Welkin equiv?)

Divine Ranks given to:
Countably infinite-bounded sets (e.g. all rational numbers between 0 and 1)
Countably infinite-unbounded sets (e.g. even numbers)
Uncountably infinite-bounded sets (e.g. Cantor set)
Uncountably infinite-unbounded sets (e.g. all transcendentals)

 

[Anabstercorian]

A series of doublings could work too. (Ex HD would go 1, 2, 4, 8, 16,.. etc)
Its gotta be something numerical in nature.

0, 1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21, 34, 55, 89, 144, 233, 377, 610, 987,

No, too clumped at the low end, though I suppose if we trim it...

2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21, 34, 55, 89, 144, 233, 377, 610, 987

That's a good spread.

 

[Phantom Llama]

Agreed. There are many qualities the base rules define as Supernatural which could actually be produced via Extraordinary means; take for example a breath weapon spitting fire. All one really needs to get the same effect is a means of expelling a cloud of hydrogen, and a means of producing a spark to ignite it in an oxygen atmosphere; the former can be done with organic processes (though it is admittedly rare), and the latter can be done via an electrochemical reaction. Combine the two and voila: non-supernatural fire breath. Probably not all that damaging, but still- an impressive trick.

IMO if you can come up with a good, rational explanation for how an ability is performed, then there's no reason to make it Supernatural, and consequently a creature using that process which has an INT score of 1 or 2 can be an Animal as opposed to Aberration or Magical Beast.

My grievance is more basic than that. It has never been adequately explained to me why you can't just have animals with magical abilities (the equally pointless maximum/minimum Int restrictions are just idiot icing on a retarded cake).

 

[paradox42]

Oooh, I hadn't considered elemental! That would be -perfect- I think. The type and subtype would be "Elemental (Math)" with the moigno traits above being renamed "Math Subtype traits".

That's opening a can of worms (though I don't disagree)- if a concept like Math can have Elementals, then why not other concepts like Emotion or Philosophy?

Okay, let's try to revise the list a little.

Species:
Natural
Rational
Negative
Algebraic
Irrational
Transcendental
Normal
(Real? Maybe better to just describe all of the above as reals... a hierarchical thing)

As these would be the basis for any other numbers one could come up with, I think you've got it. Any math people out there know whether there are any number "species" not on this list that don't depend on adding components like i (the square root of -1)?

Templates:
Imaginary (0 real component, the imaginary component has the traits of the base moigno)
Complex (Lich equiv)
Quaternion (Demilich equiv)
Octonion (Akalich equiv)
Matrix (Vampire equiv?)
Invertable Matrix (Vampire lord equiv?)
Semidefinite +/- Matrix (Nosferatu equiv?)
Definite +/- Matrix (Welkin equiv?)

Actually, shouldn't the Matrix templates (if we use templates for this) be something like turning a single base creature into a swarm? Like the Mob template for example? The idea is cool in any case, and certainly matrices should be templates of some kind- I'm just wondering what to compare them to.

Divine Ranks given to:
Countably infinite-bounded sets (e.g. all rational numbers between 0 and 1)
Countably infinite-unbounded sets (e.g. even numbers)
Uncountably infinite-bounded sets (e.g. Cantor set)
Uncountably infinite-unbounded sets (e.g. all transcendentals)

What about non-infinite sets? Should those have some sort of special properties as well?

And given the above list, I'd say the Uncountably Infinite sets should actually be Cosmic in power-equivalent terms, rather than merely Divine. Seems to give the idea more symmetry, to me. Which brings us back to the question- just what can Aleph-1 do, anyway?

 

[paradox42]

My grievance is more basic than that. It has never been adequately explained to me why you can't just have animals with magical abilities (the equally pointless maximum/minimum Int restrictions are just idiot icing on a retarded cake).

A fair point. One would think that in a magical world basic animals would develop the ability to instinctively use certain magical effects, eventually. The world really doesn't make sense otherwise. And would the world's inhabitants think of the "magical beasts" as something distinctly Other than the (probably rare) "Animals" that can't do anything supernatural?

 

[Fieari]

Yeah, uncountably infinites should be cosmic. Forgot to specify. I meant divine as in "possesses divine ranks."

I don't think matrices would be swarms though... or at least not swarms like we know them. Matrices follow rather interesting rules of their own that aren't quite intuitive.

For instance, I do believe that the invertible matrix template would enable the moigno to be healed by both positive AND negative damage. That's not something you expect from a swarm. Via the dot product, you might expect that matrices can flank at 90 degree angles instead of requiring the 180 regular people need. Kooky things like that.

As for non-infinite sets... I think that would simply be the equivelent of encountering a group of moigno. Nothing too extravagant.

You know... we did leave out an entire category of number types. What about the various special kinds of natural numbers? Primes, perfects, squares, triangular number, hexagonal numbers... if we need to fill out the lower ranks, these are available...

 

[Ltheb Silverfrond]

That's opening a can of worms (though I don't disagree)- if a concept like Math can have Elementals, then why not other concepts like Emotion or Philosophy?
...

I am sure they could. I doubt anyone cares enough to do a writeup on them. although I suspect they would fall into portfolio-style catagories, and be very easy.

So, we need a hierarchy.
Number Types - "Mortal"? (Non-epic, minor powers. Possibly dangerous in large quantities) (Haha a pun) - These could be the lowest tier.
As we go up in complexity they should become more powerful. Perhaps a more complex Moigno could possess powers of it's composite kin. (Ex: an Algebra Moigno might have the powers of both Numerical Moigno and Variable Moigno, as well as any Operand Moigno)

And what "cap" or top tier do we assign? Are the most powerful moigno equivalent to Timelords? Or would they just be Powerful cosmic entities? Do we want more than one of these things at divine tiers, or do we just have one kind at a tier?

I like Fieari's ideas for Matrices. Moigno seem to be a strange lot, and I can imagine them possessing simple but interesting powers. (Like the positive/negative thing) Perhaps imaginary ones could have Incorporeality? If a "Variable" moigno exists, what sets of powers could it draw apon? (I would imagine any of the powers of number types, but only one at a time?)

 

[Anabstercorian]

On a related note:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surreal_numbers

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperreal_numbers

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_closed_field

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computable_number

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definable_number

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constructible_number

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primorial

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sphenic_number

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highly_composite_number

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superior_highly_composite_number

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split-octonion

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypercomplex_numbers

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sedenion

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musean_hypernumber

 

[dante58701]

Someone should write up Dream and the various other eternals from the Sandman series. Id love to see that done by Krustian rules.

They should also do the Streetfighter members.

 

[Pssthpok]

Someone should cease to blaspheme.