Immortals Handbook - Epic Bestiary (Epic Monster Discussion)

[Upper_Krust]

Hi dante mate!

C&C complex??? *bain fallded out go boom, bleibibibibibibibibibibib*

It's simplicity is precisely the reason I don't play it. I'm a number cruncher myself and I love complexity, which is why I like 3.0 and 3.5. It forces me to use my brain, brushes the cobwebs off. How can anyone find C&C complex???

Kids

Perhaps its complexity is in its uncomplexity.

New Topic...potential problem...

Encounter Guidebook

For “Gods & Monsters” Adventure Guides

Copyright © 2006 by Jerry Stratton

http://www.godsmonsters.com/

Now thats interesting, I'll maybe drop the guy an email and see what he says. I don't like stepping on someones toes so I don't mind if I ultimately have to change the title. Although "Gods & Monsters" is a perfect fit, so its a little disappointing.

I wonder if the distinction between a book title and an RPG line is sufficiently pronounced. Probably not to be honest.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey Frukathka mate!

Hey, UK! Just wanted to let you know that I've preordered The Immortals Handbook - Bestiary through Mongoose.

Thanks dude - I appreciate the love.

 

[dante58701]

Complexity in uncomplexity...maybe...I didnt even think of that. *brain shorts out from overthinking*

That's actually quite deep, Im amazed ur not a philosopher

I hope the title doesnt have to be changed. I like it the way it is, but Id hate to see you get in trouble over something so stupid.

Goodness knows I get enough spankings for everyone. "Bad Dante, whap whap, Bad!!!"

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey U_K!

Hiya mate!

It's not that I can't play D&D it's whether I will find the time and inclination in light of the time that's become necessary to do so.

When I first began posting here four years ago my circumstances were different. Since that time my career has become more demanding and I have added two children to the mix.

It's tougher and tougher to find time to game, that's all.

Thats understandable.

It's good stuff but my sense is that it could be streamlined. Whether it could be streamlined without losing game feel is another question.

That I would be interested to see.

At the moment it only has about a dozen rule parameters, the crux of which is that an immortal has to "buy" its divine abilities by expending its ability scores.

So you could have a Greater God with 25's in all stats and they'll only have two portfolio abilities. If they want any others they have to reduce their ability scores by 6 (total - not each) to gain one divine ability.

So for ability scores you have:

19: mortal maximum
20: hero-deity (flat average)
21: quasi-deity (flat average)
22: demi-deity (flat average)
23: lesser deity (flat average)
24: intermediate deity (flat average)
25: greater deity (flat average)

Some portfolios allow for scores to go above the 25 limit (so Boccob might have Int 26, while Hercules might have Str 26 etc.)

 

[historian]

Hey U_K!

Thats understandable.

Happens to the best of us.

At the moment it only has about a dozen rule parameters, the crux of which is that an immortal has to "buy" its divine abilities by expending its ability scores.

So you could have a Greater God with 25's in all stats and they'll only have two portfolio abilities. If they want any others they have to reduce their ability scores by 6 (total - not each) to gain one divine ability.

So for ability scores you have:

19: mortal maximum
20: hero-deity (flat average)
21: quasi-deity (flat average)
22: demi-deity (flat average)
23: lesser deity (flat average)
24: intermediate deity (flat average)
25: greater deity (flat average)

Some portfolios allow for scores to go above the 25 limit (so Boccob might have Int 26, while Hercules might have Str 26 etc.)

Cool, and by the way I have really enjoyed the C&C material on your website. The exchange regarding Thrinn and Tiamat was classic.

I'd love to see what you end up with fully fleshed out. Will you still be able to incorporate the higher Divine Ranks (Sidereal and up) and Abilities?

So you know, I have actually found that the IH has alleviated some 3.5 woes. It's rather easy to stat up a Time Lord relative to a 20th level character. Abilities like Maven and Omnicompetent help as well.

I've got a homebrew whereby I limit things to HD, HP, AC, BAB, and damage per round that seems to be working ok. The biggest difference is saving throws and magic.

I appreciate the feedback.

 

[historian]

Goodness knows I get enough spankings for everyone. "Bad Dante, whap whap, Bad!!!"

Don't sweat it at all man, I just wanted to explain myself.

 

[Axolotl]

Death is synonymous with Entropy.
The first ones are Thought, Time, Fate, Spirit, Matter and Entropy.

I thought that he was only death for one Universe thus more powerful undead would be found in muzaloth and above?

They are beings encountered by Time Lords, existing only in a state of flux that is my imagination, until summoned forth by my epic level creativity.

So you haven't decided yet ?

The major drawback is that the system (d20) can barely macro sizes and beyond that the book-keeping is astronomical.

To be honest I think you need a more arbitrary game system (like 1st Ed. D&D) to avoid the rules simply grinding you down at uber levels.

Understandable problem.

I always had a hankering to stat Domedon Doxomedon (High Lord Octad), so I suppose he might be the most powerful, I'll ever stat-up. Though Tetragrammaton will just have to do in the meantime.

Sounds nasty.

If tetrad can easily defeat Neutronium golems shouldn't one of their CRlECLs be altered?

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey U_K!

Hi historian mate!

Cool, and by the way I have really enjoyed the C&C material on your website. The exchange regarding Thrinn and Tiamat was classic.

I vaguely recall we did actually fight Tiamat once (and I should point out that Simon upped Tiamats power considerably) and in a moment of madness I let one of the other players (Bob ~ aka Mirv Sheelan) plan the strategy which basically ended up making everything a hundred times more difficult, in fact his tactics were so bad on that occasion they were hilarious.

I'd love to see what you end up with fully fleshed out. Will you still be able to incorporate the higher Divine Ranks (Sidereal and up) and Abilities?

Shouldn't be a problem, one thing I am wondering is what modifier to give saving throws.

Basically all immortals save on a roll of 2 + the difference in divine bonus - obviously this is a scaled down divine bonus since there would be no such bonuses for Disciples or Prohets.

So a Greater Deity (DvR 8 would need to roll an '18' to save against a First One DvR 24)

So you know, I have actually found that the IH has alleviated some 3.5 woes.

I think it helps initially, but then falls into the same trap that plagues d20 overall. Too much stuff.

It's rather easy to stat up a Time Lord relative to a 20th level character.

Not sure what you mean?

Abilities like Maven and Omnicompetent help as well.

I probably didn't go far enough. I'd remove iterative attacks (switching to Metamartial combat for multiple attacks) altogether for a start.

I've got a homebrew whereby I limit things to HD, HP, AC, BAB, and damage per round that seems to be working ok. The biggest difference is saving throws and magic.

The main problem with d20 is that its far too player driven.

I think 4E should take steps to better centralise feats into the classes themselves, perhaps with feat trees or even remove feats altogether and just have class based powers.

If you let players attempt actions like I have the metamartial maneouvers in Ascension, then you could pretty much remove feats altogether.

This way you still get all the fun of feats, but theres none of the paperwork!

I appreciate the feedback.

Are you stealing my lines now.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey dude!

I thought that he was only death for one Universe thus more powerful undead would be found in muzaloth and above?

There could indeed be more powerful undead in muzaloth and above* (Un-beings for instance), but the cardinal points relate to factors found in the observable universe. Death is only death for one universe after all, just as time is irrelevant outside the universe. Treat the dimensions as the laws of physics. Outside your universe those laws may not apply.

*or below would be more accurate for Un-beings, since they are from negative dimensions.

So you haven't decided yet ?

At this point such beings are only a few ideas/notes on a pad where I brainstormed half a dozen possible threats to the time lords.

If tetrad can easily defeat Neutronium golems shouldn't one of their CRlECLs be altered?

Yes. But the problem is that I can't figure out how to change it mathmatically, and I don't like the hit and hope approach.

 

[historian]

Hey U_K!

I appreciate the input, very helpful.

I vaguely recall we did actually fight Tiamat once (and I should point out that Simon upped Tiamats power considerably) and in a moment of madness I let one of the other players (Bob ~ aka Mirv Sheelan) plan the strategy which basically ended up making everything a hundred times more difficult, in fact his tactics were so bad on that occasion they were hilarious.

Sounds like you guys just had one hell of a time back then.

Shouldn't be a problem, one thing I am wondering is what modifier to give saving throws.

Basically all immortals save on a roll of 2 + the difference in divine bonus - obviously this is a scaled down divine bonus since there would be no such bonuses for Disciples or Prohets.

So a Greater Deity (DvR 8 would need to roll an '18' to save against a First One DvR 24)

So you halve the DvR eh. Interesting . . . . .

If you let players attempt actions like I have the metamartial maneouvers in Ascension, then you could pretty much remove feats altogether.

I love the Obliterating Attack manuever.

Didn't mean to steal any lines either.