Immortals Handbook - Epic Bestiary (Epic Monster Discussion)
- Thread starter Upper_Krust
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Upper_Krust
Legend
Hey Frobojoe dude! 
Exactly what I was going to say.
Frobojoe said:
Exactly what I was going to say.
Ltheb Silverfrond
Explorer
Technically it is still disadvantageous to the character. Since you can only take divine abilities and not feats, that means that you only gain new 'powers' every 18 levels vs every 3. (or less if a fighter) So if level progression rates stay the same, it isn't in the player's favor. (But with stuff like Digestio, it doesn't matter)
Why bother changing it, that's just stupid and illogical considering that a mechanic already exists to deal with such insane notions.
Not to mention it's just more force fed pandemonium. Such rules should always be optional, not forced, thats like saying...you must do things my way and only my way.
This is very limiting and very irritating.
And it's not about hating, it's about noticing something that is seriously deranged. If a divine ability exists that allows 6 feats, then this force fed garbage not only becomes redundant...
...it also becomes severely pointless. Also, digestio is not available to mortals...so that is a mute point at best.
Im just saying that oversimplifications like this are actually over COMPLICATIONS. The system thus far, while far from perfect should not be generically simplified in such a manner.
While such a ruling could be introduced as an OPTIONAL idea...it should REMAIN OPTIONAL, not f**k with the whole system or with NONDIVINE characters.
It's ridiculous to bandy such rules together and just HOPE that everyone will think it's a novel and cool idea.
Not everyone will agree and not everyone will want force fed logistics.
A handful of people getting together online and getting along is no basis for rule changes and rearrangements when all ideas are not taken in to account.
While I may have grated on more than a few nerves here, Im being perfectly reasonable when I say that this should not be FORCE FED. It should be OPTIONAL.
Whatever happened to freedom on Enworld, or has that died. Must we all be part of the status quo now?
I exist as a counterpoint to popular notions because whats popular is not always right and whats right is not always popular.
Both ideas should be equally represented. I may not like the idea and you might not like mine, but Im not the only one out there who sees things the way I do.
Sure people here dont like me...but that is a poor excuse to just spout off and judge me and my counterpoints so harshly.
Not to mention it's just more force fed pandemonium. Such rules should always be optional, not forced, thats like saying...you must do things my way and only my way.
This is very limiting and very irritating.
And it's not about hating, it's about noticing something that is seriously deranged. If a divine ability exists that allows 6 feats, then this force fed garbage not only becomes redundant...
...it also becomes severely pointless. Also, digestio is not available to mortals...so that is a mute point at best.
Im just saying that oversimplifications like this are actually over COMPLICATIONS. The system thus far, while far from perfect should not be generically simplified in such a manner.
While such a ruling could be introduced as an OPTIONAL idea...it should REMAIN OPTIONAL, not f**k with the whole system or with NONDIVINE characters.
It's ridiculous to bandy such rules together and just HOPE that everyone will think it's a novel and cool idea.
Not everyone will agree and not everyone will want force fed logistics.
A handful of people getting together online and getting along is no basis for rule changes and rearrangements when all ideas are not taken in to account.
While I may have grated on more than a few nerves here, Im being perfectly reasonable when I say that this should not be FORCE FED. It should be OPTIONAL.
Whatever happened to freedom on Enworld, or has that died. Must we all be part of the status quo now?
I exist as a counterpoint to popular notions because whats popular is not always right and whats right is not always popular.
Both ideas should be equally represented. I may not like the idea and you might not like mine, but Im not the only one out there who sees things the way I do.
Sure people here dont like me...but that is a poor excuse to just spout off and judge me and my counterpoints so harshly.
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Ltheb Silverfrond
Explorer
I think we are getting a bit ahead of ourselves. U_K only suggested it as an idea to simplify things. I don't exactly agree with his exact numbers (I would prefer multiples of 10's. IE Take divine abilities at 100th+ level, cosmic at 1000th, etc) because of the reasons I mentioned before, but I can see the need to simplify the game at higher, more relativistic levels.
Dante brings up a good point in that at levels below 100, characters are more individuals than at later levels. Timelords are composite dimensions rolled up into one entity, and many share similar powers. The higher level you go, the more general your character gets until you have every power and feat conceivable. (Very high level indeed, but the if you had stats for Logos, he could do it; 14400 Divine slots covers most iterations of IH powers)
Though it doesn't matter, it was only a possible rule to use.
Dante brings up a good point in that at levels below 100, characters are more individuals than at later levels. Timelords are composite dimensions rolled up into one entity, and many share similar powers. The higher level you go, the more general your character gets until you have every power and feat conceivable. (Very high level indeed, but the if you had stats for Logos, he could do it; 14400 Divine slots covers most iterations of IH powers)
Though it doesn't matter, it was only a possible rule to use.
At levels after 100 it could be a workable solution, but before that...it just isn't fair to individuality.
I almost feel ganged up on here sometimes, but it's nice to know some people are willing to hear me out...even if I am considered the town looney on enworld.
And PS Psstpoke...Ill hate anyone I want and I DARE you to stop me from freethinking.
I swear, dictators.
Welcome to the civilian world...WE DO NOT TAKE ORDERS...nor will we ever.
My mind reels in agony at the power of the mindless droning of the severely sheep-like and militaristicly unholy booya. Next comes the gorilla chorus.
A side note...is divinity to only path to power?
I almost feel ganged up on here sometimes, but it's nice to know some people are willing to hear me out...even if I am considered the town looney on enworld.
And PS Psstpoke...Ill hate anyone I want and I DARE you to stop me from freethinking.
I swear, dictators.
Welcome to the civilian world...WE DO NOT TAKE ORDERS...nor will we ever.
My mind reels in agony at the power of the mindless droning of the severely sheep-like and militaristicly unholy booya. Next comes the gorilla chorus.
A side note...is divinity to only path to power?
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Fieari
Explorer
Well, you could always become fantastically amazing at what you do... you could be a 100th level fighter if you really wanted. That'd be pretty darn powerful, but you'd lose out on a lot of the benefits that come from being divine. Still, it has its advantages compared to an equivalent ECL god. You effectively don't get gear anymore (because of disjunctions), but your HD and BAB are a lot higher. Saves are probably comparable, given all the divine bonuses + artifacts...
Hey U_K!
I think it's handy as is honestly. Here's where I am to date (I'm working the following off an Excel spreadsheet):
1. Determine DvR per Ascension pp. 27-45
2. Determine HD per Table 2-10
3. Determine HP per HD per Tables 2-10 and 2-11
4. Determine base AC per Divinity Template and Table 2-11 (dex plus charisma bonuses)
5. Determine BAB (all Deities IMC will have +1 BAB per HD)
6. Determine max damage per round (typically yielded through the application of Divine or better Abilities)
7. Determine DR per divinity template.
That's basically seven steps that will produce a 1st ed. style stat block. Works for me.
For saves I'm using basically what you proposed a few days ago:
1. For Deity vs. Deity the save number = 2 + 1/2 DvR differential
2. For Mortal vs. Mortal the save number = 2 + HD differential
3. For Mortal vs. Deity, Deities save on a "2" or better while Mortals save only on a "20" irrespective of levels, etc.
I can see how many folks might take exception to the foregoing #3, but it does capture that old school D&D feel and Immortality is technically attainable at level 15.
I'm also thinking about adding a couple of optional Divine Abilities although I lack names for them at the moment:
1. Ability Inspired by Heavy Eradication: At your option you can ignore any benefits conferred an opponents trait type (choose either Undead, Construct, or Elemental type). This Ability may be taken multiple times and each time it is taken it applies to a new type.
I'm thinking this is a Cosmic ability and should be named "Favored Dimensional Enemy" or something.
2. Ability(s) inspired by the Omega and Akashic Effects: You regenerate HD equal to your DvR per round or alternatively you regenerate DvR equal to 1/7th of your HD per round.
That one could be Omnific.
Maybe I'll make it "DM only."
I think it's handy as is honestly. Here's where I am to date (I'm working the following off an Excel spreadsheet):
1. Determine DvR per Ascension pp. 27-45
2. Determine HD per Table 2-10
3. Determine HP per HD per Tables 2-10 and 2-11
4. Determine base AC per Divinity Template and Table 2-11 (dex plus charisma bonuses)
5. Determine BAB (all Deities IMC will have +1 BAB per HD)
6. Determine max damage per round (typically yielded through the application of Divine or better Abilities)
7. Determine DR per divinity template.
That's basically seven steps that will produce a 1st ed. style stat block. Works for me.
For saves I'm using basically what you proposed a few days ago:
1. For Deity vs. Deity the save number = 2 + 1/2 DvR differential
2. For Mortal vs. Mortal the save number = 2 + HD differential
3. For Mortal vs. Deity, Deities save on a "2" or better while Mortals save only on a "20" irrespective of levels, etc.
I can see how many folks might take exception to the foregoing #3, but it does capture that old school D&D feel and Immortality is technically attainable at level 15.
I'm also thinking about adding a couple of optional Divine Abilities although I lack names for them at the moment:
1. Ability Inspired by Heavy Eradication: At your option you can ignore any benefits conferred an opponents trait type (choose either Undead, Construct, or Elemental type). This Ability may be taken multiple times and each time it is taken it applies to a new type.
I'm thinking this is a Cosmic ability and should be named "Favored Dimensional Enemy" or something.
2. Ability(s) inspired by the Omega and Akashic Effects: You regenerate HD equal to your DvR per round or alternatively you regenerate DvR equal to 1/7th of your HD per round.
That one could be Omnific.
Maybe I'll make it "DM only."
You feel like you're ganged up on, dante, because you say crap like 'Welcome to the civilized world' and 'lol!!!!!' and other inane, useless posts that usually boil down to you begging for vampire templates or copy/pasting other work into your own; you try to show off as taking a 'high road' when all you manage to do is annoy people and post meager and poorly re-imagined animal builds while still managing to screw up the CRs. Maybe if you didn't post as much you would get so much negative feedback. Silence is golden; less is more.
If you feel like you're having rule changes force fed, remember who's writing this book. If UK revises something, that's canon. It's not for you to say what he can do while remaining inside an ethical boundary. Those boundaries are not for you or anyone on ENworld to describe. UK happens to post his work on ENworld; it's not this community that creates his work, it's the community that gets the biggest slice of his brainstorming pie. So before you go decorating yourself with the right to complain, think about it. Minority or not, this isn't a democracy, so get over yourself.
If you feel like you're having rule changes force fed, remember who's writing this book. If UK revises something, that's canon. It's not for you to say what he can do while remaining inside an ethical boundary. Those boundaries are not for you or anyone on ENworld to describe. UK happens to post his work on ENworld; it's not this community that creates his work, it's the community that gets the biggest slice of his brainstorming pie. So before you go decorating yourself with the right to complain, think about it. Minority or not, this isn't a democracy, so get over yourself.
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