Immortals Handbook - Epic Bestiary (Epic Monster Discussion)

[mercucio]

UK,

What are the CR/ECL adjustments you'd give the following special abilities. I've listed my own estimates next to them.

Lay on Hands (0.4 ECL)
Lore (0.4 ECL)
Uncanny Dodge (0.4 ECL)
Slippery Mind (0.4 ECL)
Powerful Build: per the Goliath from the Psionic SRD (+0.4 ECL)

Resolute: immune to Mind-Altering Effects under specific circumstances: guarding a location, bodyguarding an individual, fufilling the objectives of specific mission) (0.3 ECL)
Burning Strike (Su): +1d6 fire damage on strikes, multiplied on criticals (+0.3 ECL)

Heroism aura, AoE 25 ft. + 5 ft./2 HD (+1.0)

Majestic Aura (Su): All opponents in a 30 ft. radius must make a successful Will save to attack you. Mind-altering effect, subject must also be blind in order to avoid the save. If the subject only meets one of the two criteria it instead receives a +4 bonus on its Will save (+1.0 ECL)

One With All (Sp): Mimic and 6th level or lower spell 3/day. Unlike normal spell-like abilities you must provide any material component or Foci with a value greater than 1000gp and also pay any associated XP costs. (+1 ECL)

Aura of Harmony (Su): Orehim radiate an aura of peace and harmony in 30 ft radius around themselves. Any creature wishing perform a violent act must make a Will save (DC 23) or be unable to do so. If an orehim attacks or performs a malicious act this power is suspended until one minute after the orehim ceases her course of action. Creatures non-good creatures with the Chaotic subtype, creatures with the Evil subtype, or from the Far Realms, must make a Will save (DC 23) each round or take 2d6 points of damage each round they remain within range of the orehim’s aura. Save DC for this ability is Wisdom-based. (+1 ECL)

Finally what would the adjustment be the ECL value of outsider HD if you reduced their BAB from +1/HD to 3/4HD?

 

[Upper_Krust]

UK,

Hi mercucio mate!

apologies for the slow reply. I think I have tonsilitis, so I am a bit 'lemon squeezy' today.

What are the CR/ECL adjustments you'd give the following special abilities. I've listed my own estimates next to them.

Lets take a look.

Generally, unless they have a specific numerical value attached, if something is too powerful to be a feat but not powerful enough to be a divine ability I will give it an ECL adjustment of +0.5.

Lay on Hands (0.4 ECL)

I might lean towards one feat.

Lore (0.4 ECL)

What class is this from?

Uncanny Dodge (0.4 ECL)

1 feat.

Slippery Mind (0.4 ECL)

+0.5

Powerful Build: per the Goliath from the Psionic SRD (+0.4 ECL)

+0.5

Resolute: immune to Mind-Altering Effects under specific circumstances: guarding a location, bodyguarding an individual, fufilling the objectives of specific mission) (0.3 ECL)

1 feat

Burning Strike (Su): +1d6 fire damage on strikes, multiplied on criticals (+0.3 ECL)

1 feat

Heroism aura, AoE 25 ft. + 5 ft./2 HD (+1.0)

+0.5

Majestic Aura (Su): All opponents in a 30 ft. radius must make a successful Will save to attack you. Mind-altering effect, subject must also be blind in order to avoid the save. If the subject only meets one of the two criteria it instead receives a +4 bonus on its Will save (+1.0 ECL)

+1

One With All (Sp): Mimic and 6th level or lower spell 3/day. Unlike normal spell-like abilities you must provide any material component or Foci with a value greater than 1000gp and also pay any associated XP costs. (+1 ECL)

+0.5

Aura of Harmony (Su): Orehim radiate an aura of peace and harmony in 30 ft radius around themselves. Any creature wishing perform a violent act must make a Will save (DC 23) or be unable to do so. If an orehim attacks or performs a malicious act this power is suspended until one minute after the orehim ceases her course of action. Creatures non-good creatures with the Chaotic subtype, creatures with the Evil subtype, or from the Far Realms, must make a Will save (DC 23) each round or take 2d6 points of damage each round they remain within range of the orehim’s aura. Save DC for this ability is Wisdom-based. (+1 ECL)

+1

Finally what would the adjustment be the ECL value of outsider HD if you reduced their BAB from +1/HD to 3/4HD?

-0.05/HD

 

[mercucio]

All right UK, more LA guessing time. I'd appreciate your estimates on the following:


Essence of the Prime: Empyreal Preceptors, by their very nature, are exemplars of the Prime and all the wonder, mystery, and variety it encompasses. As such an empyreal preceptors presence strengthens the fabric of the Prime around them providing the following effects in a 5 foot radius emanation per HD of the preceptor:
—An empyreal preceptor’s presence strengthens the planar fabric of the Prime, impeding the casting of spells that utilize extra-dimensional creatures, energies, or methods of travel. Such spells include: calling or summoning a creature not currently on the Prime plane, spells and powers that draw on energies from another plane—like the spells of the Shadow subschool, or allow extra-dimensional travel including astral projection, blink, dimension door, ethereal jaunt, etherealness, gate, maze, plane shift, shadow walk, teleport, and similar spell-like, psionic, or supernatural abilities.
—A preceptor’s presence also strengthens the causality of the Prime plane, impeding effects that would alter this causality, such as bend reality, limited wish, miracle, reality revision, wish, and similar spells, powers, or effects.

A caster who wishes to cast any of the effects described above must make a Spellcraft check (DC 20 + the level of the spell + the total HD/levels of the Preceptor). If the check fails, the spell does not function but is still lost as a prepared spell or spell slot. If the check succeeds, the spell functions normally.

In the case of supernatural abilities that have no caster level the creature utilizing the ability in question must make a successful level check, with a DC of 10 + the preceptor’s HD/class levels.

A preceptor is immune to the effects of its own Essence of the Prime ability but not to that of another preceptor. A preceptor may suppress or resume this ability as a move-equivalent action. It should also be noted that an orehim’s One With All special ability is unimpeded by this ability.

Estimate: +1.5 LA


Inner Radiance (Ex): An Empyreal Preceptor can shed light in a 5 foot radius emation per two HD/class levels from its body. This light counters and dispels all darkness effects (caster level equals the sum of the preceptor’s HD/class levels). Fungi and fungoid creatures, molds, oozes, slimes, jellies, and puddings take 1d6 points of damage for each round in the bright light; evil outsiders and undead in the area of affect suffer 2d6 damage per round in the bright light. If the preceptor possesses the Brilliant Lux salient ability double the damage list above.

Estimate: +1 LA


Song of Creation (Su): As a full-round action a preceptor can sing a few stanzas of the Words of Creation to create one or more simple, nonmagical objects with a total weight of up to 50 pounds per 8HD/class levels, or with a total volume of 10 cubic feet per 8HD/class levels. A preceptor can create larger objects by maintaining its song until the size of the desired object is reached. If the preceptor uses this ability on a divinely morphic plane, double the volume and weight the preceptor can create.

For purposes of this ability a simple object can have no moving parts more complex than a simple lock and must be composed of no more than three different materials. The materials can be no more valuable than silver (10 gp per pound). Once created, the objects are permanent and nonmagical. If the preceptor has the appropriate Craft skill, the preceptor can make a Craft check when creating the item to make it a masterwork item.

Using this ability is extremely tiring for the preceptor as it invests some of its own vitality into the object, which can leave it fatigued. The preceptor can create an object with a value of up to 100 gp without impairment. For every additional 100 gp of value (or fraction of 100 gp), the preceptor must rest for 10 minutes (treat as fatigued). If the preceptor is creating an item on a divinely morphic plane double the values listed above.

Estimate: +2 LA

 

[Pssthpok]

Hi, UK.

I have a question: did you revise the standing on the Silver Rule to always multiple the Golden Rule by .85, even if the CR is over 20?

Another question: if I said I made an Excel spreadsheet that handled v.5 of the Challenge Rating system, would it be kosher to post it, or would you like to see it (maybe via email) first?

 

[Upper_Krust]

All right UK, more LA guessing time. I'd appreciate your estimates on the following:

Happy to help...

Essence of the Prime: Empyreal Preceptors, by their very nature, are exemplars of the Prime and all the wonder, mystery, and variety it encompasses. As such an empyreal preceptors presence strengthens the fabric of the Prime around them providing the following effects in a 5 foot radius emanation per HD of the preceptor:
—An empyreal preceptor’s presence strengthens the planar fabric of the Prime, impeding the casting of spells that utilize extra-dimensional creatures, energies, or methods of travel. Such spells include: calling or summoning a creature not currently on the Prime plane, spells and powers that draw on energies from another plane—like the spells of the Shadow subschool, or allow extra-dimensional travel including astral projection, blink, dimension door, ethereal jaunt, etherealness, gate, maze, plane shift, shadow walk, teleport, and similar spell-like, psionic, or supernatural abilities.
—A preceptor’s presence also strengthens the causality of the Prime plane, impeding effects that would alter this causality, such as bend reality, limited wish, miracle, reality revision, wish, and similar spells, powers, or effects.

A caster who wishes to cast any of the effects described above must make a Spellcraft check (DC 20 + the level of the spell + the total HD/levels of the Preceptor). If the check fails, the spell does not function but is still lost as a prepared spell or spell slot. If the check succeeds, the spell functions normally.

In the case of supernatural abilities that have no caster level the creature utilizing the ability in question must make a successful level check, with a DC of 10 + the preceptor’s HD/class levels.

A preceptor is immune to the effects of its own Essence of the Prime ability but not to that of another preceptor. A preceptor may suppress or resume this ability as a move-equivalent action. It should also be noted that an orehim’s One With All special ability is unimpeded by this ability.

Estimate: +1.5 LA

I'm thinking ECL +2, +1 to inhibit certain spells and another +1 to boost others.

Also I am worried about the DC (10+HD) its a bit unorthodox and very HD heavy.

Inner Radiance (Ex): An Empyreal Preceptor can shed light in a 5 foot radius emation per two HD/class levels from its body. This light counters and dispels all darkness effects (caster level equals the sum of the preceptor’s HD/class levels). Fungi and fungoid creatures, molds, oozes, slimes, jellies, and puddings take 1d6 points of damage for each round in the bright light; evil outsiders and undead in the area of affect suffer 2d6 damage per round in the bright light. If the preceptor possesses the Brilliant Lux salient ability double the damage list above.

Estimate: +1 LA

I'd probably tweak the damage somewhat, you should be looking at positive energy [Effect = Aura] for damage and make it 1/3 fungi, 2/3 for undead.

Song of Creation (Su): As a full-round action a preceptor can sing a few stanzas of the Words of Creation to create one or more simple, nonmagical objects with a total weight of up to 50 pounds per 8HD/class levels, or with a total volume of 10 cubic feet per 8HD/class levels. A preceptor can create larger objects by maintaining its song until the size of the desired object is reached. If the preceptor uses this ability on a divinely morphic plane, double the volume and weight the preceptor can create.

For purposes of this ability a simple object can have no moving parts more complex than a simple lock and must be composed of no more than three different materials. The materials can be no more valuable than silver (10 gp per pound). Once created, the objects are permanent and nonmagical. If the preceptor has the appropriate Craft skill, the preceptor can make a Craft check when creating the item to make it a masterwork item.

Using this ability is extremely tiring for the preceptor as it invests some of its own vitality into the object, which can leave it fatigued. The preceptor can create an object with a value of up to 100 gp without impairment. For every additional 100 gp of value (or fraction of 100 gp), the preceptor must rest for 10 minutes (treat as fatigued). If the preceptor is creating an item on a divinely morphic plane double the values listed above.

Estimate: +2 LA

Thats a tricky one. I'd say +1 ECL.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi, UK.

Howdy Pssthpok mate!

I have a question: did you revise the standing on the Silver Rule to always multiple the Golden Rule by .85, even if the CR is over 20?

Yes, for version 6. Technically its 0.833, since its 6 feats in place of 5 now.

Another question: if I said I made an Excel spreadsheet that handled v.5 of the Challenge Rating system, would it be kosher to post it, or would you like to see it (maybe via email) first?

No, post away mate!

 

[Pssthpok]

Howdy Pssthpok mate!



Yes, for version 6. Technically its 0.833, since its 6 feats in place of 5 now.



No, post away mate!

Hey hey, UK!

Thanks for the tidbit on v.6, that makes my efforts that much more worth it.
I'll post it soon (Monday evening, EST?), since I managed to make a mess of the templates. Figuring out the level-by-level value for the variable templates is a bit of a chore. The others (like the ones that change based on the drop in Con) are easy.

EDIT: Scratch that... I'm running into some problems with the templates about which I may email you. On the other hand, this just means I'm that much closer to being done.

 

[Fieari]

I'm considering how to handle this weaknesses in terms of ECL. How would you rate this? Cosmic equivalent? Transcendent? Somewhere inbetween? Certainly this would be more debilitating than a mere Divine weakness! You'd have to do everything in utter secrecy, or be -certain- that someone else gets the credit.

Unworthy of Worship: Beings with this weakness cannot stand to be worshiped. All accumulated Glory counts against their total quintessence instead of adding to it, dropping divine rank if necessary. Beings whose Glory penalty exceeds their Power and Resonance assume cursed lives, obtaining negative divine ranks and accumulating one extra divine weakness (DM's choice) per negative rank. Negative Press is even worse for such beings, subtracting double the normal amount.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey Fieari matey!

I'm considering how to handle this weaknesses in terms of ECL. How would you rate this? Cosmic equivalent? Transcendent? Somewhere inbetween? Certainly this would be more debilitating than a mere Divine weakness! You'd have to do everything in utter secrecy, or be -certain- that someone else gets the credit.

Unworthy of Worship: Beings with this weakness cannot stand to be worshiped. All accumulated Glory counts against their total quintessence instead of adding to it, dropping divine rank if necessary. Beings whose Glory penalty exceeds their Power and Resonance assume cursed lives, obtaining negative divine ranks and accumulating one extra divine weakness (DM's choice) per negative rank. Negative Press is even worse for such beings, subtracting double the normal amount.

Its a weakness that is totally meaningless if chosen, since the immortal only has to not pursue an agenda of attracting worshippers and killing those who do worship them.

It might work as an epic spell/curse, cast against an immortal with an existing body of worshippers.

 

[Fieari]

Hrm. I was thinking of plopping this on a specific custom monster I had in mind, which would have a personality that specifically wouldn't do that. I want this weakness, because I want to make it so that organizing worship of the being is the main and most effective method of defeating it. But you're right about the standard response: the "The Lady of Pain". She almost certainly has this deficit, given how personally vengeful she is against anyone trying to worship her.

What if the above weakness was coupled with the following one:

Bound By Worship: Beings with this weakness are compelled to serve and protect those who worship it, regardless of alignment. The being can decide how to best serve their interests, so if, for example, a good aligned being was for some reason worshiped by evil followers, they could be served by attempting to convert them to good. Worshipers cannot be harmed for any reason, although they can be allowed to come to harm if and only if such harm would be in their long term interests.
Special: Creatures with a divine rank cannot be considered worshipers for the purposes of this weakness.

First of all, is this ability worth a divine weakness? Secondly, if coupled with "Unworthy of Worship", would it make Unworthy of Worship worth more?