Immortals Handbook - Epic Bestiary (Epic Monster Discussion)

Upper_Krust said:
You two are bickering like a married couple! :D

I think he's in love with me. :D Sorry Psstpoke, I'm spoken for and ur not my type. Your too...what was that word...male. (no one can say I have no sense of humor)

PS...The Oxford dictionary is also, like Websters and many others, greatly commercialized and highly dubious. They don't cite sources in most instances and simply go by the status quo, which is often times wrong.

Back to the cube.

You could also give the cube minimal sentience and Alter Reality. Then it would be able to mimic any spell once a round. This would cover most of the traps as well as allow it to do other things.

This would also simplify many other things. With Alter Reality, the cube could be given craft golem and craft epic golem, potentially allowing it to create other golem varieties as you suggested, though not at the phenomenal rate at which it would be creating orichalcum golems.

This would also force the cube's sentience to focus it's spell effects on just one opponent at a time. Essentially allowing PCs to have a vague chance of bypassing even this defense.

Then the cube could be given an Achilles Heel ability. Double it's damage reduction, but make it more vulnerable at the core.
 
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[interruption]Dictionaries don't really have to cite sources, being the source of the words we use to make known our knowledge of other ideas as a whole. It's like trying to cite basic math.

It's just that you're discrediting anything that proves you're a fanatic. That, dante, is what this is about and why you won't just let it go. Fan is derived etymologically from "fanatic", but you can't let that sit, because then I'm right and you've lost this little contest, or whatever it is to you. I know it as a fact, you deny it and can't prove it... um... it's over.

And while you might have a sense of humor (if that's what you call it), you have no sense of when to quit trying antagonize or libel me for the sake of your own perceived threat to your I dunno... "masculinity", "self-esteem"? Whatever you think I'm attacking when I make known my disdain for you and the space you tend to waste around here.

I do not suffer fools like you, dante; rather, I try not to. If I remove you from my ignore list one more time and find you've made some adolescent jab at me, my sexuality, or my disdain for you in general, I will not let it rest.

Read the Oxford or the Webster's dictionary (whichever appeals to your sense of credibility), learn what "etymology" means (if you can trust those shady dictionaries long enough to get to "e", that is), go check out "fan", cry into your pillow because you can't win without resorting to schoolyard mudslinging, and drop it. For the love of Osiris or whoever you worship, frickin' drop it.

I'm going back to mechanically ignoring you, dante; just... let it lie.[/interruption]
 
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Pssthpok said:
[interruption]It's just that you're discrediting anything that proves you're a fanatic. That, dante, is what this is about and why you won't just let it go.[/interruption]

"Your statement sounds fairly fanatical to me.", sayeth the kettle to the pot.

Pssthpok said:
[interruption]I do not suffer fools like you, dante; rather, I try not to. If I remove you from my ignore list one more time and find you've made some adolescent jab at me, my sexuality, or my disdain for you in general, I will not let it rest.[/interruption]

It was purely good natured jesting...the fact that you take it so personally only undermines your credibility. I thought we were trying to be adults here. Also, it wasn't an attack on your sexuality (though you do seem overtly defensive on that issue, like you might have something to hide). It was a side jest in response to Krusty's own humorous jesting.

Upper_Krust said:
You two are bickering like a married couple! :D

He's right, we are fighting like a married couple. It's humorous.

Pssthpok said:
[interruption]Read the Oxford or the Webster's dictionary (whichever appeals to your sense of credibility), learn what "etymology" means (if you can trust those shady dictionaries long enough to get to "e", that is), go check out "fan", cry into your pillow because you can't win without resorting to schoolyard mudslinging, and drop it. For the love of Osiris or whoever you worship, frickin' drop it.[/interruption]

Im not slinging mud so much as explaining my half of the view point. Once again, you take this far too personally. Then you resort to attacks on my religious views as some sordid justification for you poor behaviour.

Pssthpok said:
[interruption]I'm going back to mechanically ignoring you, dante; just... let it lie.[/interruption]

I already knew you wouldn't ignore me jesting, it just goes to show how childish you are, lying in wait and pretending to be ignoring me, just so you can fanatically attack me with more insults.

It's one thing to make jokes...but it's quite another to bring up things (such as someones religion) when it has absolutely nothing to do with the conversation at hand.

Time and time again you only serve to further discredit yourself by losing your undying cool.

PS...I'm actually agnostic. If you'd been paying attention at all (and you really haven't) you'd notice that I stated..."My girlfriend worships Anubis."

So...not only are you misquoting me, ur going a bit off the deep end here. I have no problem with civilized discussions and jesting at my expense...but...you sound outright hostile and even confess to having "disdain" for me. Well...that's fine, you're welcome to your opinions.

Just remember, that is a double edged sword there. Just as you are welcome to your opinions...I am equally welcome to having my own. So...try to relax. You are taking this way too fanatically.
 
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Pssthpok said:
[interruption]Whatever you think I'm attacking when I make known my disdain for you and the space you tend to waste around here.

I do not suffer fools like you, dante; rather, I try not to. If I remove you from my ignore list one more time and find you've made some adolescent jab at me, my sexuality, or my disdain for you in general, I will not let it rest.[/interruption]

Also...I have not once claimed that any of your disagreements are a waste of space. They are simply that....disagreements. You see, Krusty pointed something out to me a while back.

That I should just relax and not get too enflamed when people annoy me. I've taken his advice. Im not in the slightest bit angry or upset. I just think you're very wrong. There's nothing wrong with that.

Besides, I seem to recall a pointless argument about cloaks not too long ago. It was irritating and took up more more space than anything I've ever done. I was under the assumption that this particular thread was for making Epic Monsters, not worrying about THE ETERNAL WAR OF THE CLOAK LORDS.

Also...I haven't resort to calling you a fool. That was fairly childish for someone who wants so desperately (and fanatically) to be seen as an adult.

The only way you can win this argument and prove you are less of a fan (atic) than me, is by not having the last word. For if you do try to have the last word...it only makes me the winner of the intellectual contest.

Look, it's easy...IGNORE ME. It's so simple...one click of a button and you win by default.

But you wont do it. I know this, because you are a fanatic.

The reason I don't ignore you is easy to understand...sometimes (not always or even as often as you believe), you have a valid point or two. Such points are useful in monster design. Just try to remember, you aren't the grande guru of knowledge and wisdom. That person just doesn't really exist.
 
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AND NOW BACK TO OUR REGULARLY SCHEDULED PROGRAM!!!

Ok...the cube is obviously full of potential. I'd like to hear some of Krusty's ideas on it.

Should it be sentient, perhaps some sort of awakened golem?

Should it have Alter Reality, with which to decimate it's foes.

Or...should it be able to form a symbiosis with whatever deity or being created it.
 

dante58701 said:
The creator of the cube typically lives within the cube.

This makes the cube exceptionally difficult to destroy since certain spells are designed to repair constructs, even ones typically immune to spells that allow spell resistance. Said creators almost certainly have such spells. Said creators are typically gods.
This is all well and good, but it's irrelevant to how the Reconfigure ability works or what good it does the Cube. If the creator happens to be with the Cube (either inside or out), and happens to be using spells to Repair the Cube every round or however often, then that's the creator being part of the encounter and using good tactics. It isn't the Cube using one of its abilities to gain a benefit. That was my point; I didn't see a decent use for the ability as written.

Of course, the ability has since been rewritten. The rewrite does make it more interesting, though I have one point I must bring up- playing devil's advocate again...

dante58701 said:
The reconfiguration makes the cube a virtually endless and deadly labyrinth.
...namely, why make a labyrinth at all?

If the creator can live inside the Cube and thus the Cube can make a paradisaical mansion of rooms within itself for said creator, that's all well and good. If the creator likes labyrinths, the Cube makes labyrinths. If the creator's not interested in anything beyond the basics, the Cube makes a simple bedchamber perhaps with shelves for books and racks for other possessions, and so on- just enough to live in. If the creator likes swimming, the Cube makes swimming pools. I could go on... but you get the point.

That's for the creator- but why should the Cube make space within itself for anybody or anything else? Why not just stay (almost) completely solid, and use its bulk to just smash its opponents with that 1280d10+151 (average 7191) damage Slam attack? With +30,000 to hit, it won't be missing very often if at all. Its Plasma Beam (dealing an average 2,020,000 damage per hit) should vaporize pretty much anything it's aimed at that isn't itself the size of a mountain or larger. Thus, why should the Cube even bother making a dungeon for enemies to go through, however cool an adventure that could make? That's my main question here. :)

Adventure-wise, very cool and flavorful (if a bit obvious for anybody who's ever seen the movie Cube or either of its sequels). Tactically... not so much, though perhaps the ability still has some hidden use that I'm not seeing yet. The healing is good of course, very logical and useful- is there anything else? Remember, I was looking at the monster from a perspective of generalizing it, making it a new class of Construct like "Golem" or "Sentinel" or "Colossus." You've made what should be the most powerful Cube (unless some nutso Time Lord makes a Neutronium one), but what can the Stone Cube do? What about the Clay Cube? Could some horrific Necromancer-lich-god pull together enough corpses to make an actual Flesh Cube, and if so, what would that be capable of? This is the speculative eye I've turned towards your creation.

Incidentally, you forgot to subtract the size penalty from its attack modifiers in the main Attack and Full Attack lines. You should also list the Plasma Beam there in each one, since it is an attack option (even if it is a rather special one). I'd suggest adding the Crush ability that the Colossus and Leviathan get, since that really sort of "belongs" with every Construct above Gargantuan size- in this case it would deal an incredible 2560d10+226 damage to a creature of Colossal(!) or smaller size caught on a solid surface by the Slam.
 
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Other Cubes

To give some examples of what I'm thinking about, with the previous post, here's a stab at the Diamond Cube:

Diamond Cube
Macro-Tiny Construct
Hit Dice: 5,120d10+480 (28,640 hp)
Initiative: +0
Speed: Fly 480' (Perfect)
Armor Class: 5,046 (+5,174 natural, -128 size), touch -118, flat-footed 5,046
Base Attack/Grapple: +3,840/+3,919
Attack: Slam +3,759 melee (10d10+47)
Full Attack: Slam +3,759 melee (10d10+47)
Space/Reach: 1,250 ft./1,250 ft.
Special Attacks: Cascading Slam, Crush, Duplicate, Hypnotic Pattern, Reconfigure, Sentinels, Tractor Beam
Special Qualities: Construct Traits, Damage Reduction 30/ - , Darkvision 60 ft., Fragile, Immunity to Magic, Low-Light Vision
Saves: Fort +1,706, Ref +1,706, Will +1,706
Abilities: Str 105 (+47), Dex 10, Con - , Int - , Wis 10, Cha 1
Environment: Any
Organization: Army (diamond cube plus 500 sentinels)
Challenge Rating: ???
Treasure: -
Alignment: Always neutral
Advancement: -
Level Adjustment: -

Combat

Cascading Slam (Su): Those struck by the slam of the diamond cube have the damage revisited upon themselves for 2d6 rounds unless they make a Reflex save (DC 2,570). Only one such saving throw is allowed each round. A successful save, or a successful Dispel Magic effect (against the same DC) halts all current cascading damage.

Crush (Ex): Colossal-sized or smaller opponents standing on, or adjacent to a solid surface struck by the diamond cube's Slam suffer 20d10+70 damage (instead of 10d10+47).

Duplicate (Su): If attacked by more than one opponent, the diamond cube creates a temporary duplicate of itself. The duplicate appears adjacent to its attacker. These duplicates share a single hit point total, but otherwise act independently. This ability has a range of 12,500 feet (2.3 miles, 10 x the cube's base Reach) from the initial cube. Only the initial cube has the Duplicate ability, not the duplicates. Any Sentinels (see below) created by the duplicates, however, are real and remain even if the creating duplicate is destroyed.

Fragile (Ex): Although incredibly hard, diamond is also inherently fragile. Constructs created from diamond are not immune to critical hits.

Hypnotic Pattern (Su): Any creatures within 3,750 feet (cube's Space x 3) of a diamond cube must make a Will save (DC 2,570) or become fascinated for 2d4 rounds.

Reconfiguration (Ex): The diamond cube can reconfigure itself once each round as a free action. Creatures engulfed by the diamond cube may, once each round as a full-round action, attempt to escape from the cube with a successful Intelligence check (DC 35). Success indicate they escape the cube, exiting the cube's fighting space into an open square of the cube's choice. Failure indicates they remained trapped within the cube. Failure by 20 or more indicates that the engulfed subjects not only remain trapped, but during their escape fall prey to some form of trap or ambush, and suffer 20d6 Slashing, piercing, bludgeoning, fire, or electricity damage (cube's choice). There is no save to negate this damage. Further, as long as the cube has 14,320 or more hit points remaining, it heals 5,120 hit points of damage each round it reconfigures itself.

Sentinels (Su): At the behest of it's creator, once per round, as a free action, a diamond cube can manufacture 1 diamond sentinel, 2 diamond golems, or 4 diamond guardians.

Tractor Beam (Su): Once per round, as a standard action, the diamond cube may attempt a ranged touch attack at +3,712 to hit against any foe within 17.5 miles. If this touch attack hits, the foe must make an opposed strength check against the diamond cube or be pulled 1250 ft towards the cube, +50 ft per 5 points by which the cube exceeds the foe's result. Foes pulled into the diamond cube's square are engulfed within it and cannot easily escape (see Reconfiguration ability, above).
 

I wonder what a mercury cube would be like...as for the updates...Ill try to work on those when I get some spare time. Dinner coming up soon, stir fry.
 

paradox42 said:
To give some examples of what I'm thinking about, with the previous post, here's a stab at the Diamond Cube:
[...]

It's an ECL of around 1640 to 1645 if my machine is working. That's a CR ~1100 or so.
 

Hehe, so now 'cube' has become the next stage in Golem evolution. Ok, lets just go to the extreme now: Plutonium Cube. Neutronium Cube. :)

And no, there is no logical reason to make the cube a labyrinth, but theres also no reason to seal ancient artifacts away in a typical D&D labyrinth either. Just wall 'em in lead, bury it 1000 feet below ground and forget about them. But to facilitate the adventure, the villain has to slip up somewhere and the powerplay of 'come through my labyrinth if you can' is a classic.
 

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