immortals handbook

[Upper_Krust]

Hiya mate!

I think DC 50 should let you know pretty much anything about a subject - Once you have a modifier of +49, (which could be managed at 20th with 23 ranks, +10 intelligence, +13 magical item to Knowledge worth 16900 gp) you Know All That Matters. Past that, you'll start gaining simply absurd degrees of information.

Agreed.

For Knowledge: Nobility
DC 50 - You can name every single noble family ever to exist on your Material Plane, all of their family members, and explicitly diagram their history of interactions back to the dawn of recorded history.
DC 70 - Same as 50, except any noble family of Outsiders, Fey, or Elementals ever to exist in the Elemental, Ethereal, Astral, or Outer planes.
DC 90 - Same as 70, except that you can describe the personal habits of each and every one of these noblemen, and every single blackmailable deed they have ever committed.
And you could go on, but really - How much of that do you need to know?

Exactly, I think you have to ask yourself at which point does the minutiae stop.

The only knowledge skill that could conceivably scale forever is probably either Knowledge: Religion or Knowledge: Planes. Both of those deal with subjects that have no limits under the system outlined in the Immortals Handbook. Even knowing the EXISTENCE of Metempiric beings would probably be a triple-digit check. Knowing one of their names could well be quadruple digit, and knowing how to properly worship one would likely by quintuple digit.

Interesting ideas, I may have to incorporate something along those lines.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey U_K

Hi Kavon mate!

Oh, asking for too much, ok

You guessed it!

I was just wondering how much different the two would be, since the jumps were equal at first, but larger now. Is it something like twice as strong? More (3 times)? Less (1.5)?

I'll probably be gunning for approx. four times the power with the leap to cosmic; note thats not a fourfold increase in CR (As per the CR/EL rules).

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi historian mate!

The knowledge skill is an interesting one. I suppose that in addition to religious and planar knowledge, forms of knowledge dealing with infinitely divisible subject matter (I'm thinking of alchemy in particular) could theoretically scale forever, although I wouldn't be the one to come up with the scale (although I suspect Krust could).

I only really plan on extending the stuff thats already in the Epic Level Handbook; not to rewrite it.

Although I guess that one could take a different philosophical bent and contend that there is no subject matter is infinitely divisible, and my theory is out the window.

Perhaps the easiest way to deal with this 'infinite' knowledge is to make it concommitant with total consciousness, which in turn might only be obtained by merging with the akashic record or heart of the universe or some such.

Heh heh! Heart of the Universe. I like that parallel.

Ultimately though, I agree with the point that there is definite practical end of the knowledge scale, beyond which there are likely to be no benefits unless one literally possessed infinite knowledge.

Indeed. What I have tried to do is philosophise beyond the skills themselves into abstract applications of them...or somesuch. Of course time will tell if this idea gels.

 

[Matrix Sorcica]

Hi Krust!

Will the IH include your take on the Gods in Deities & Demigods?

I'm not very keen on the official non-epic, so a krusty take on Tiamat, Bahamut, Lolth, Thor and Hades etc. would be much appreciated.

I'm aware of copyright issues of course, but some fiffling with names can go a long way.

So?

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi Bjorn matey!

What's wrong with the term demiurgic beings (except its being in plural which I'm certain can be rectified in a fantasy universe)?

Nothings wrong with it, in fact I quite like it.

As per dictionary.com:

dem·i·urge ( P ) Pronunciation Key (dm-ûrj)
n.
A powerful creative force or personality.
A public magistrate in some ancient Greek states.
Demiurge A deity in Gnosticism, Manichaeism, and other religions who creates the material world and is often viewed as the originator of evil.
Demiurge A Platonic deity who orders or fashions the material world out of chaos.


[Late Latin dmiurgus, from Greek dmiourgos, artisan : dmios, public (from dmos, people. See d- in Indo-European Roots) + ergos, worker (from ergon, work. See werg- in Indo-European Roots).]
demi·urgeous (-ûrjs) or demi·urgic (-jk) or demi·urgi·cal (-j-kl) adj.
demi·urgi·cal·ly adv.

Seems to be a word to me? And it fits with being as a Gnostic or Platonic deity would most likely be a being, right?

I was never refuting the existence of such a word, just that I had never used the term demiurgic myself and as such you were putting words in my mouth...which of course led other people to inquire where I had been hiding this demiurgic class of beings, and so forth.

I believe I'm owed an apology.

I humbly beg your forgiveness.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi Krust!

Hi Sorcica mate!

Will the IH include your take on the Gods in Deities & Demigods?

Not to any great extent. There will be some sample deities and some iconic deities, but I will be saving the Pantheons for the Immortals Index.

I'm not very keen on the official non-epic, so a krusty take on Tiamat, Bahamut, Lolth, Thor and Hades etc. would be much appreciated.

I'm aware of copyright issues of course, but some fiffling with names can go a long way.

So?

I am sure Tiamat; Bahamut; Lilith; Thor and Hades would not be copyright protected.

Of those Tiamat will be in the Babylo-Sumerian (Mesopotamian) Pantheon Index; Thor is obviously in the Norse and Hades in the Greco-Roman. I haven't decided where exactly Bahamut is going since there are a number of derivations of his name in multiple Pantheons.

I have considered using Lilith: Mother of Demons in the Immortals Handbook; nicely parallels Lucifer as the Father of Devils...don't you think?

 

[Matrix Sorcica]

Not to any great extent. There will be some sample deities and some iconic deities, but I will be saving the Pantheons for the Immortals Index.

Guess that's what I meant. Not really if they are in the IH or a later book, but if they will be there at all. Thanks.

I am sure Tiamat; Bahamut; Lilith; Thor and Hades would not be copyright protected.

Of those Tiamat will be in the Babylo-Sumerian (Mesopotamian) Pantheon Index; Thor is obviously in the Norse and Hades in the Greco-Roman. I haven't decided where exactly Bahamut is going since there are a number of derivations of his name in multiple Pantheons.

I was thinking Tiamat and Bahamut in their draconian D&D versions. Are they draconic in Babylo-Sumerian mythology as well? I'm not very familiar with this mythos.

I have considered using Lilith: Mother of Demons in the Immortals Handbook; nicely parallels Lucifer as the Father of Devils...don't you think?

I do indeed. It sounds cool.
But I was asking about Lolth (and she is copyrighted - just ask Fast Forward Entertainment )

 

[Kavon]

Hi Kavon mate!

Hey U_K

You guessed it!

(while I was writing that question, it didn't even crossed my mind that the answer to the question would be a spoiler )

I'll probably be gunning for approx. four times the power with the leap to cosmic; note thats not a fourfold increase in CR (As per the CR/EL rules).

Ah, ok. That's quite the difference, yeah.
How much increase in power are there between, say, an Elder One and an Old One?

Edit:

I have considered using Lilith: Mother of Demons in the Immortals Handbook; nicely parallels Lucifer as the Father of Devils...don't you think?

I always liked the name Samael better than Lucifer

Edit 2: Probably cause "lucifer" is Dutch for a match stick

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi Sorcica mate!

Guess that's what I meant. Not really if they are in the IH or a later book, but if they will be there at all. Thanks.

I was thinking Tiamat and Bahamut in their draconian D&D versions. Are they draconic in Babylo-Sumerian mythology as well? I'm not very familiar with this mythos.

Tiamat is, Bahamut isn't (depending on where hes sourced from).

I do indeed. It sounds cool.
But I was asking about Lolth (and she is copyrighted - just ask Fast Forward Entertainment )

Where do you think the name Lolth derives from.

 

[Revenge of the Bjorn]

Krust, I see the issue now, but in my defense, I believe you did have Demiurge listed as a rank of divinity in the early days, and I seem to remember in one of your past assesments of ranks one rank was for divinities which created planes, so that's what I meant.

It would be nice to see Lillith included, and the way you phrased the idea ("nicely parallels Lucifer as the Father of Devils") seems to point to Lucifer's inclusion, no? That definately would be fun. As per various names, I've always found Satan overused. Lucifer sounds much fancier, and Samael doesn't roll off the tongue quite so well. Although I can see how the matchstick association could ruin the name Lucifer for you.