immortals handbook

[Upper_Krust]

Hi Roman mate!

Good list! These are things that are bordering on impossibility for ordinary humans, but they do not go so far as to require a supernatural explanation - they can be construed as amazing, almost unbelievable, competence on the part of characters.

I would have expected all the above from mere high-level characters...even a Monk will be outrunning a horse by 20th-level.

So virtually nothing in that list said 'epic' to me.

Walking on clouds, on the other hand, is just so far out there that I simply cannot suspend my disbelief without a supernatural explanation for it. Same goes for direct reading of thoughts on a high sense motive check.

I do not think that in order to be epic, you have to break all the rules of physics, etc. and not even justify it with a supernatural explanation. That is not what defines an epic game in my eyes. For me, an epic game implies that the heroes are still mortal and while high above their ordinary brehten they still cannot break the limits of physics without supernatural aid. These still human heroes struggle against the odds to accomplish great deeds that will inspire generations of people after them to follow their example. That is what epic means to me.

Well certainly you are entitled to your opinion mate, but for me, everything you have said above I would expect in a standard campaign...in fact you have pretty much defined the standard campaign model "Mortal heroes struggling against the odds to accomplish great deeds."

Now, don't get me wrong, I would expect immortal and divine games to be different. Divinite is in its very nature supernatural, so the above limitations do not apply.

Of course, everyone will has their own idea of what epic means and the above is merely my take on the matter.

I'm confused as to the epic content of your above ideas?

Epic must mean something different, otherwise it means nothing.

 

[DeadlyUematsu]

Now this perked my interest...

UK, what do you think is Epic then?

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi there Deadly Uematsu!

Now this perked my interest...

UK, what do you think is Epic then?

Clearly, epic must refer to something beyond the normal and natural.

Thats easy to gauge with regards the real world, but campaign worlds are somewhat more subjective.

I would suggest that something becomes epic if you previously wouldn't have believed it possible.

Between levels one to twenty characters are capable of truly astounding accomplishments. So it has to be something that even a high-level character would have thought impossible.

This could be as simple as making the supernatural natural; or merely escalating scale and scope to a bewildering degree. Or indeed it could be as complex as making the inconceivable become reality.

 

[Gez]

Epic is becoming NINJA!

Because ninja are awesome!

They have real ultimate power!!!


(If you don't know the joke yet, go browse http://www.realultimatepower.net/ )

 

[CRGreathouse]

I just got the Draconomicon (a great book, btw), and looking through I noticed that they reprinted 9 epic feats. (Spellcasting Harrier, interestingly enough, was modified in its 3.5 update -- it's more powerful now.)

I wonder if this means a higher or lower chance of putting more epic feats in the SRD?

U_K -- Look for an email from me!

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi all!

Apologies for the slower than usual response, I only had limited time on the computer yesterday and ENWorld wouldn't let me post at all during it. Added to that I am doubly knackered due to the first serious weights training I have undertaken in a month (yesterday morning) and I only got four hours sleep last night after getting locked out of the house by accident. My muscles are in total agony (which is a good thing) and I am incredibly tired...but the Krust shall ever prevail.

Hey Gez matey!

Epic is becoming NINJA!

Because ninja are awesome!

They have real ultimate power!!!


(If you don't know the joke yet, go browse http://www.realultimatepower.net/ )

Very good.

I wonder how the ninjas would fare against Mr T from the A-team though!? A true clash of the titans.


By the way for all you comics fans I have developed an iron clad way of converting Marvel* Super-Heroes and Villains to 3.5 D&D.

*Or indeed DC characters, provided they have been converted to the original Marvel Super-Heroes RPG stats.

In fact its so good I was considering approaching Marvel (in the near future) and asking them if I could release a supplement for the Immortals Handbook which was akin to a profile on all their top Cosmic beings. Sort of like a Cosmic Bestiary, Marvel style.

What do you any of you think of the idea?

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi CRGreathouse mate!

I just got the Draconomicon (a great book, btw), and looking through I noticed that they reprinted 9 epic feats. (Spellcasting Harrier, interestingly enough, was modified in its 3.5 update -- it's more powerful now.)

I wonder if this means a higher or lower chance of putting more epic feats in the SRD?

At this juncture I (virtually) don't really need the extra* epic material to release the IH.

*The epic material not already included in the 3.5 DMG.

U_K -- Look for an email from me!

I got your email mate, thanks very much for the heads up. I may have a reply for you tomorrow morning inquiring about a few specific points on the matter at hand.

 

[historian]

Howdy Krust!

By the way for all you comics fans I have developed an iron clad way of converting Marvel* Super-Heroes and Villains to 3.5 D&D.

*Or indeed DC characters, provided they have been converted to the original Marvel Super-Heroes RPG stats.

SWEET!

In fact its so good I was considering approaching Marvel (in the near future) and asking them if I could release a supplement for the Immortals Handbook which was akin to a profile on all their top Cosmic beings. Sort of like a Cosmic Bestiary, Marvel style.

What do you any of you think of the idea?

I think it's a great idea (obviously). Where do you put Walker, Eternity, Korvac, Living Trbunal?

I've got a couple more questions I'll post when I have a few more minutes.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Howdy Krust!

Hi historian matey!

SWEET!

I thought you and a few others (such as Bjorn) would really like the idea.

For those that don't really follow comics think of this as a supplementary batch of, primarily, unique epic/immortal beings (85% unique/15% generic I would venture at a glance).

So far I have a tentative list of 59*, of which I only (so far) have MSH RPG stats for 42. I'll email a few people on some websites to see what I can come up with.

*Some of which are dual entities (Eternity/Infinity for example); therein counted as a single entry.

I was thinking about 64 would be a good number.

I think it's a great idea (obviously). Where do you put Walker,

DOH! I forgot all about Walker, hes just such a peripheral cosmic character. I must confess I haven't seen his MSH RPG stats either yet though.

Walker makes 60.

Eternity,

Well its been very interesting research. Using Odin as the central figure around which everything revolves Eternity actually worked out as a High One.

Which indirectly makes sense, but I won't go into why at this juncture.

Incidently Thor actually worked out as a Quasi-deity* which shows the deference between the most powerful Asgardian and the second most powerful Asgardian. Its also indicative of

*Though Mjolnir is incredibly powerful, so hes somewhat more powerful than it initially sounds.

Korvac,

Korvac worked out as a very powerful Elder God.

Korvac is a very interesting character and if you can track it down I would wholeheartedly recommend the "What If" #32 ('What if the Avengers had become pawns of KORVAC') comic.

http://www.bullcitycomics.com/bcc/prod.asp?CatID=6&ProdID=1468492

In that comic you can really see Korvac laying the immortal smackdown.

Living Tribunal?

Technically (stats wise) worked out as a High One but its clear 'he' is much more powerful than Eternity so he would be a Time Lord.

I've got a couple more questions I'll post when I have a few more minutes.

Okay mate!

If you can think of any obscure cosmic entities let me know.

Incidently I think Galactus ended up about 14th from the top (on the current tentative list).

 

[historian]

Hello Krust!

I thought you and a few others (such as Bjorn) would really like the idea.

You bet I do.

So far I have a tentative list of 59*, of which I only (so far) have MSH RPG stats for 42. I'll email a few people on some websites to see what I can come up with.

*Some of which are dual entities (Eternity/Infinity for example); therein counted as a single entry.

I was thinking about 64 would be a good number.

Sounds like a good number to me.

DOH! I forgot all about Walker, hes just such a peripheral cosmic character. I must confess I haven't seen his MSH RPG stats either yet though.

Walker makes 60.

As in like 60 out of 64 in terms of power (with 64 being the highest)?

I've never seen MSH RPG stats for Walker either, but I suspect he would rate out at about Class 5000 across every attribute and power.

Korvac worked out as a very powerful Elder God.

Korvac is a very interesting character and if you can track it down I would wholeheartedly recommend the "What If" #32 ('What if the Avengers had become pawns of KORVAC') comic.

http://www.bullcitycomics.com/bcc/p...&ProdID=1468492

In that comic you can really see Korvac laying the immortal smackdown.

Great stuff, I seem to recall that the Living Tribunal had to "split" that particular universe off from the rest of the Mulitiverse because Korvac had become too powerful. My personal favorite What If? was What If Wolverine became Lord of the Vampires?, I highly recommend it.

If you can think of any obscure cosmic entities let me know.

Abraxus (sp.) is one that probably wasn't ever statted by Marvel, and seems on about the level of Eternity/Infinity - Death/Oblivion (and is not coincidentally apparently the greater evil that Galactus' presence squelches). The Celestial Exitar the Exterminator was, IMO, never adequately statted. The True Beyonders also were left out I think.

When I remember my other two questions I'll fire away.

Thanks, Dude.