immortals handbook

[Upper_Krust]

Hi guys!

Why do you call them Meta Gifts or Meta Feats?

Short for "Metempiric Gifts", since "Metempiric" is the highest level of power in U_K's system.

Actually I have changed this around somewhat so that now Meta Feats/Gifts = Epic Feats.

Formerly Omnific Gifts now become Transcendental Gifts.
Formerly Metempiric Gifts now become Omnific Gifts.

So you would have:

Feats/Gifts
Meta Feats/Gifts
Divine Feats/Gifts
Cosmic Feats/Gifts
Transcendental Feats/Gifts
Omnific Feats/Gifts

It was just tiny things that made me change my mind.

If I could find another 25 Meta Gifts I would bring the Gift Total in the book over 300. I think, even though the bulk are Divine Gifts, that Meta Gifts are very important, and also further increase the books 'epic' appeal.

 

[Drow Jones]

Hi guys!

Actually I have changed this around somewhat so that now Meta Feats/Gifts = Epic Feats.

Formerly Omnific Gifts now become Transcendental Gifts.
Formerly Metempiric Gifts now become Omnific Gifts.

So you would have:

Feats/Gifts
Meta Feats/Gifts
Divine Feats/Gifts
Cosmic Feats/Gifts
Transcendental Feats/Gifts
Omnific Feats/Gifts

It was just tiny things that made me change my mind.

If I could find another 25 Meta Gifts I would bring the Gift Total in the book over 300. I think, even though the bulk are Divine Gifts, that Meta Gifts are very important, and also further increase the books 'epic' appeal.

Why "Meta" instead of "Epic"? Isn't the term "epic" in the SRD now, so you could use it?

Changing the terms, which WotC uses is going to create confusion among your future customers. "Epic feat" is already a recognisable D&D term, whereas "Meta gift" is known to nobody.

If you expand the feat power chain (feat/epic feat/?/?/...), it's good design to expand on the already established terminology. Please, use the term feat, even if it is a bit silly to have a feat called "Let There Be Light!" or whatnot.

I'd say drop "meta" and gift" terms. Brand/terminology -recognition is nothing to sneeze at.

- DJ

PS: Are your Divine Feats equivalent to WotC's Salient Abilities in Deities & Demi-gods?

PPS: WotC should have called them Divine Feats.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi Drow Jones!

Why "Meta" instead of "Epic"? Isn't the term "epic" in the SRD now, so you could use it?

Changing the terms, which WotC uses is going to create confusion among your future customers. "Epic feat" is already a recognisable D&D term, whereas "Meta gift" is known to nobody.

To be honest I havn't really supplanted the Epic feat terminology rather than simply mentioned an alternative. So I wouldn't worry too much about that.

If you expand the feat power chain (feat/epic feat/?/?/...), it's good design to expand on the already established terminology. Please, use the term feat, even if it is a bit silly to have a feat called "Let There Be Light!" or whatnot.

The reason I use the term Gift (at least for Divine Gifts and beyond) is to avoid confusion with 'Divine Feats'.

Also 'Feats' are gained in a very specific way (from HD increases and Class Level increases) whereas 'Gifts' are not necessarily gained that way.

So there are both philosophical and mechanical reasons for supplanting 'Feats' with 'Gifts' at a certain measure of power at least.

I'd say drop "meta" and gift" terms. Brand/terminology -recognition is nothing to sneeze at.

The term Epic Feat is still used throughout. However I'll be using the term Gifts to seperate something gained from Feat progression from something gained from Divine Power.

PS: Are your Divine Feats equivalent to WotC's Salient Abilities in Deities & Demi-gods?

Yes. However a small handful (about 3 or 4) of their Salient Divine Abilities are closer to Cosmic Gifts than Divine Gifts.

PPS: WotC should have called them Divine Feats.

Possibly, though that would misleadingly imply they are gained at a rate of +1/3 HD/Levels or indeed whether they could be taken as class features.

...which would actually make for an interesting optional rule though.

 

[Drow Jones]

Hi Drow Jones!

Howdy! (That was quick. )

To be honest I havn't really supplanted the Epic feat terminology rather than simply mentioned an alternative. So I wouldn't worry too much about that.

Ah. No worries then.

The reason I use the term Gift (at least for Divine Gifts and beyond) is to avoid confusion with 'Divine Feats'.

<snip>

The term Epic Feat is still used throughout. However I'll be using the term Gifts to seperate something gained from Feat progression from something gained from Divine Power.

Now I see. I thought "feat" and "gift" were the same thing. My mistake, sorry.

Yes. However a small handful (about 3 or 4) of their Salient Divine Abilities are closer to Cosmic Gifts than Divine Gifts.

Yeah, a few of them are pretty far from others power-wise.

Possibly, though that would misleadingly imply they are gained at a rate of +1/3 HD/Levels or indeed whether they could be taken as class features.

As I mentioned above, I was under the impression this was the method you are using in IH. You said at one point, that you're not using Divine Ranks. I thought that you had constructed a system for immortals resembling levels and feats. Propably something like in the old Wrath of the Immortals box: 36 immortal levels on top of 36 character levels, etc...

...which would actually make for an interesting optional rule though.

Perhaps a sidebar in Immortals Handbook?

- DJ

 

[Matrix Sorcica]

As I mentioned above, I was under the impression this was the method you are using in IH. You said at one point, that you're not using Divine Ranks. I thought that you had constructed a system for immortals resembling levels and feats. Propably something like in the old Wrath of the Immortals box: 36 immortal levels on top of 36 character levels, etc...
- DJ

This would be cool beyond words. Do it. Krust, oh please do it!

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey Drow Jones mate!

Howdy! (That was quick. )

I'm hasted.

Ah. No worries then.

Now I see. I thought "feat" and "gift" were the same thing. My mistake, sorry.

No apologies necessary mate.

Yeah, a few of them are pretty far from others power-wise.

Indeed.

Just to reiterate, you won't actually need Deities & Demigods to use the Immortals Handbook; however certain things will be compatible and power wise I have tried to make things fairly similar.

As I mentioned above, I was under the impression this was the method you are using in IH.

Nope.

You said at one point, that you're not using Divine Ranks.

Thats correct, I find them unnecessary. They complicate matters which you should instead be trying to simplify.

That said, there are rough parallels between certain aspects of my templates and divine rank.

I thought that you had constructed a system for immortals resembling levels and feats. Propably something like in the old Wrath of the Immortals box: 36 immortal levels on top of 36 character levels, etc...

Not quite. Divinity has absolutely nothing to do with Level or Experience Points.

Instead I have constructed divinity as per multiple Templates (Demigod Template; Lesser God Template etc.). The templates are gained by accumulating worship points.

Though I suppose in a way you could say that each Template is akin to one Divine Level and Worship Points are akin to Divine Experience Points.

Incidently if you wanted to you could still very easily use Divine Ranks through my system - its that modular.

Perhaps a sidebar in Immortals Handbook?

Possibly.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey Sorcica mate!

This would be cool beyond words. Do it. Krust, oh please do it!

While I am certainly a fan of Wrath of the Immortals; they do it their way, and I do it mine. Put it like this, if their way was better than mine I'd be using theirs. Suffice to say it isn't and I don't*.

*Of course I am biased.

 

[Matrix Sorcica]

Hey Sorcica mate!



While I am certainly a fan of Wrath of the Immortals; they do it their way, and I do it mine. Put it like this, if their way was better than mine I'd be using theirs. Suffice to say it isn't and I don't*.

*Of course I am biased.

Of course you are, but if the IH exceeds Wrath of the Immortals I'm now one of the people begging you to hurry up, even though I've also been one of those delaying you with the CR system.

BTW, I've been thinking (believe it or not). Will there be some sort of bonus material in the print version of the IH. I mean, if I already bought 4 pdf's of $8 a piece, it would be very nice to gain something special for investing in the hardcover as well.
I immediately suggest CRs done for some other monster books, perhaps MM2 or Fiend Folio - or even better Tome of Horrors and Book of Templates. Maybe some of the work over at dicefreaks as well?
Just suggestions

 

[CRGreathouse]

Incidently if you wanted to you could still very easily use Divine Ranks through my system - its that modular.

Good. That's actually prerequisite for my buying your system... Divine Ranks are an integral part of my campaign world.

 

[Anabstercorian]

Hey Bjorn mate!



I'm trapped in the death grip of the v5 CR/EL system.

Though in my spare time I have still been working on the IH.

At the moment I am trying to come up with some more epic feats* (to augment all the Divine, Cosmic etc. Gifts), but at the moment I am stuck on about 35, I would like to have around 60 or so.

*aka Meta Gifts or Meta Feats.

Mind if I make some suggestions?

Herculean Strength: You are considered one (possibly two) size category/s larger for purposes of carrying capacity, lifting, and dragging.

Marvelous Intellect: You apply your intelligence bonus to all Knowledge skills twice instead of once.

Cacaphonous Stunning Blow: When you make a Stunning Blow, you also do 1d6 points of Sonic damage and permanently Deafen your opponent on a failed save. Even on a successful save, they are deafened for 1d4 rounds.

Resonating Blow: When you make a Stunning Blow, you may expend additional Stunning Blow uses for the day to make it last long - If you spend four uses, it lasts two rounds, and if you spend nine uses, it lasts three rounds, and so on. You must spend these uses before you make the attack roll.

Legendary Rider, non-sucking version: As before, but now also allows you to make a ride check to ride ANY mount without penalty.

Legendary Runner: As Run, but you can move 6 times your normal movement instead of 5, and you can now charge 2.5 times your normal movement rate. Requires Run as a prerequisite.

Malevolent Spell: Only spells that target specific creatures can be affected by Malevolent spell. If a creature makes its saving throw against a Malevolent spell, they are affected by the same spell again the next round - In other words, they must save twice or suffer the full effect of the spell, and will always suffer the secondary effect twice. This feat adds +X to the spell slot required by the spell.

Defiance of Gravity: This requires the Legendary Climber feat. With this feat, you can make any climb check without the use of your hands, allowing you to use them to wield weapons or for other things.