Implicit in the Presentation

[Hairfoot]

What are your criticisms of 4E, Snoweel? If everyone's on the wrong track here, tell us what we can discuss without being haters.

 

[Snoweel]

Oh, I get it. We're using a different explanation of "criticism", here. I was taking the term "criticism" in the "examination" sense - a "critique" in the sense of an evaluation of both the good and bad qualities of something. You're looking at it as a "this is what's wrong with things" sort of way.

I knew what you were trying to do and chose to ignore it.

You've revealed yourself with your most recent use of the term 'critique', which is what you would have said if you weren't obfuscating.

I mean, alternate dictionary definitions of 'criticism' aside, we all know the contemporary usage of the term.

In other words, you're wrong and a fool.

I am indeed.

The difference is, you're unwilling to accept others opinions based upon your own. I get that you like extensive combat rules and I also agree that everyone has rule systems that aren't meant for them.

So why can't you accept that mine is 4E?

I do accept. I think it's obvious.

So obvious in fact that I think you're a hater, continually whining about a system you don't like in the presence of people who do enjoy it.

You don't see me in Pathfinder threads complaining about the rules. In fact the only time I comment on Pathfinder is when I'm praising the fluff, which I love.

So in this context, yes, It's too combat focused is a valid criticism because it'd bad (And can you do me a favour and savor these last two words?) FOR ME.

And I hope you never stop telling us so. Are there any other things you hate? It would be so helpful to keep hearing why the stuff that's good enough for us isn't good enough for you.

What are your criticisms of 4E, Snoweel? If everyone's on the wrong track here, tell us what we can discuss without being haters.

Why don't you go and troll Facebook.

 

[Pig Champion]

I'm convinced you're smoking crack! You're the one who keeps asking for my explanation and then tries to shoot it down like it isn't relevant.

I put froth my opinion once, where I thought it was relevant and then repeated it because you asked me to. You just keep repeating yourself, asking me why the system isn't good enough for me when I've already explain it...twice.

I'm done with this thread, jesus.

 

[Hairfoot]

Why don't you go and troll Facebook.

Asking a forum poster to back up their own broad statement is hardly trolling.

Upthread you said that there are valid criticisms of 4E, yet you've insisted that all the criticisms raised in this thread are invalid and the product of hate. This is your opportunity to open up a fresh avenue of debate and demonstrate that you didn't in fact announce something you don't really believe just because you thought it would benefit your argument.

Please tell us what criticisms of 4E you consider valid.

 

[Snoweel]

Upthread you said that there are valid criticisms of 4E, yet you've insisted that all the criticisms raised in this thread are invalid and the product of hate.

No mate, just some of them.

You know that.

 

[Hairfoot]

Then tell us which ones, and which ones you would add. Why are you so coy about backing up your statements?

 

[Snoweel]

Then tell us which ones, and which ones you would add. Why are you so coy about backing up your statements?

I've already explained why. Earlier in this thread.

Some posters here don't have the maturity to take concessions as anything other than an admission that "OMFG 4e F4N8OIs 3V3N tHiNk IT $u><0rs!!!"

They're just too emotionally invested in their hate of the game.

But for what it's worth, I've already pointed out one of my own criticisms in this thread (though I also explained why I think WotC have a valid reason for their actions).

I don't like the assumptions of minis and Dungeon Tiles creeping into the game (though I think it would be awesome playing online which I've never done). I didn't like it in 3e and it's even worse now.

But D&D has sent a lot of people broke, so I understand their desire to own a goose that doesn't all of a sudden just stop laying golden eggs.

Sadly I think new editions are the only viable way for whoever owns D&D to stay in business, long term.

 

[Hairfoot]

I agree. It's so immature of someone to wade into a thread and call people names because they're so emotionally invested in a game that they can't handle even the mildest disagreement.

I don't think 4E can be divided from miniatures. They're as fundamental to the system as dice, but i'm still holding out for news of a mini-less 4E game being played somewhere. But that's hardly a criticism being avoided by the haters. In fact, it's the topic of the thread.

What criticisms would you call valid that the haters are ignoring?

 

[Snoweel]

I agree. It's so immature of someone to wade into a thread and call people names because they're so emotionally invested in a game that they can't handle even the mildest disagreement.

ROFL!

I see what you did there.

I don't think 4E can be divided from miniatures. They're as fundamental to the system as dice, but i'm still holding out for news of a mini-less 4E game being played somewhere.

I find combat runs a lot more smoothly with some kind of battlemat and tokens. I just don't want to shell out for expensive minis and Dungeon Tiles(TM)

But that's hardly a criticism being avoided by the haters.

I believe the only criticism being avoided by the haters is "4e is too much like (insert hater's favourite edition here).

What criticisms would you call valid that the haters are ignoring?

You're missing my point. I don't want to discuss criticisms of games I actively dislike. Why would I want to discuss criticism of a game I do like?

 

[blargney the second]

Can this thread get split into the 4-5 posts that are on topic and toss everything else somewhere else? It's a neat thread premise that I'd like to explore further.