Impossible to keep prisoners tied up?

[Fenes 2]

Holding a shapeshifter or spellcaster by nonmagical means is difficult in any situation, and nearly impossible at high levels. A druid could turn into a strong form to damage its enclosure, and then into a small form to slip out. A caster with a Silent Teleport (or Silent Word of Recall) could get out even if he were bound, gagged, blindfolded, tied in a sack, and hung upside down from a tree.

If you really want to make somebody stay put, turn him to stone.

Or dominate him. Feeblemind should work as well. Then there is the "hostage" solution: If one escapes we will punish all - works well on LG PCs. (Our paladin was set on defying a slaver. She relented when he started to punish the bard for her actions.)

 

[mmu1]

I could think of at least a couple of ways of keeping spellcasters down... One involves a couple of alert flunkies with clubs, who beat the caster into unconsciousness at regular intervals, the other some sort of tubing that could be inserted down his gullet, and a large quantity of strong liquor.

And if you had someone with decent medical knowledge (high Heal skill) you could simply have them bleed the person into negative hit points, stabilize them, and then just visit them daily to make sure they don't get better, leaving them comatose.

 

[AuraSeer]

I could think of at least a couple of ways of keeping spellcasters down... One involves a couple of alert flunkies with clubs, who beat the caster into unconsciousness at regular intervals[...]

Subdual damage isn't a reliable way to keep someone down. Each minute the victim is unconscious, he has a 10% chance to wake up, regardless of his subdual damage total. He's still staggered, but even one partial action will let him cast a transport spell.

[...] the other some sort of tubing that could be inserted down his gullet, and a large quantity of strong liquor.

This is an interesting idea. It's similar to the idea of keeping someone poisoned, but alcohol is cheap and readily available, and you don't risk poisoning yourself when giving the prisoner a dose.

Mid-level druids and monks are immune to poisons, probably including alcohol, but other characters should be susceptible as long as you've taken their magic items away. (A Periapt of Proof Against Poison would defeat this entire tactic, if you let the prisoner hold on to it.)

And if you had someone with decent medicall knowledge (high Heal skill) you could simply have them bleed the person into negative hit points, stabilize them, and then just visit them daily to make sure they don't get better, leaving them comatose.

You'll need to tend the prisoner at least hourly, because every hour he has a 10% chance of becoming conscious (but disabled). But as long as you do that-- and as long as your healer doesn't botch a check and let the prisoner die-- you don't need any magic at all. Maybe it's not very practical, but it sounds evil, so I like it. =B^)

 

[Hypersmurf]

Came across a nasty idea for bindings - a strong, sharp wire threaded through the centre of the ropes used to tie people.

Wouldn't foil a successful Escape Artist check, but a Strength check to burst the ropes could result in nasty lacerations, or worse...

-Hyp.

 

[Drawmack]

Quoted from the SRD

Wild Shape: At 5th level, a druid gains the spell-like ability to polymorph self into a Small or Medium-size animal (but not a dire animal) and back again once per day. Unlike the standard use of the spell, however, the druid may only adopt one form. As stated in the spell description, the druid regains hit points as if he or she has rested for a day. The druid does not risk the standard penalty for being disoriented while in the wild shape.

Spell-Like Abilities (Sp): Spell-like abilities, as the name implies, are spells and magical abilities that are very much like spells. Spell-like abilities are subject to spell resistance and dispel magic. They do not function in areas where magic is suppressed or negated (such as an antimagic field). Spell-like abilities have a default action type of Standard Action. Spell-like abilities must have defined caster levels, and require Concentration checks as if they were spells.

Polymorph Self
Transmutation
Level: Rgr 4, Sor/Wiz 4
Components: V
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Personal
Target: The character
Duration: 1 hour/level (D)
Saving Throw: Fortitude negates
Spell Resistance: Yes

Wildshape is a special use of polymorph self, thereby it is a spell-like ability. Looking up spell-like abilities is states that, ‘’they are very much like spells’’ then goes on to list some similarities. One of the similarities listed is that they take a standard-action. I would rule that this standard action is because the person actually has to perform the spell. I rationalize the whole thing by stating that a spell-like ability is a spell that is innate to the creature and therefore must still be cast. This means that the druid must be able to speak to wildshape so gag him. You say this won’t work is he has silent spell. I say well let’s take a look at that feat.

Quoted from the SRD

Silent Spell [Metamagic]
Benefit: A silent spell can be cast with no verbal components. Spells without verbal components are not affected. A silent spell uses up a spell slot one level higher than the spell’s actual level.
Special: Bard spells cannot be enhanced by this metamagic feat.

It appears that you are correct about the Wildshape being able to be used if the character has this feat, until you take a look at its nuances. A silent spell is one level higher then the spell’s actual level. Well since spell-like abilities have no spell level then they cannot be cast at one higher level, since they cannot be cast at one higher level then this feat cannot be applied to them. It could be argued that the spell-like ability would use the same level as the spell.

Alternately you can avoid all of this by having the party held in an anti-magic room, in which case Wildshape will not work anyway.

I think I just kept your druid tied up.

 

[nharwell]

Wildshape is a special use of polymorph self, thereby it is a spell-like ability. Looking up spell-like abilities is states that, ‘’they are very much like spells’’ then goes on to list some similarities. One of the similarities listed is that they take a standard-action. I would rule that this standard action is because the person actually has to perform the spell. I rationalize the whole thing by stating that a spell-like ability is a spell that is innate to the creature and therefore must still be cast. This means that the druid must be able to speak to wildshape so gag him. You say this won’t work is he has silent spell. I say well let’s take a look at that feat.

Even if your supposition about how spell-like abilities is true (and I'm not certain I agree with that), I have to point out that Wildshape is no longer based on Polymorph Self -- the description in Masters of the Wild does not refer to that spell at all.

 

[Drawmack]

In a thread on another board it is being discussed if you should state up-front that you're not using core rules. The answer is pretty much a unanimous yes. MotW is not core rules, none of the splat books are core rulebooks there are only three core rulebooks. So guess what Wildshape most certainly is still based on Polymorph Self, however the MotW variant is not and if that is what you're using then I am wrong - however if it is still a spell-like aility then what spell components does it required. I'd give it a devine focus and take away the guys holly.

 

[CRGreathouse]

however if it is still a spell-like aility then what spell components does it required. I'd give it a devine focus and take away the guys holly.

As a spell-like ability, wildshape requires no components -- see the MM.

 

[Dingleberry]

In a thread on another board it is being discussed if you should state up-front that you're not using core rules. The answer is pretty much a unanimous yes. MotW is not core rules, none of the splat books are core rulebooks there are only three core rulebooks. So guess what Wildshape most certainly is still based on Polymorph Self, however the MotW variant is not and if that is what you're using then I am wrong - however if it is still a spell-like aility then what spell components does it required. I'd give it a devine focus and take away the guys holly.

I haven't seen the other thread, but with that strict of an interpretation of "core rules", how are you able to ever incorporate official errata or rules clarifications?

As to the specific issue of wildshape: the section in MotW is labeled as a "Rules Update" and says "the following version of this ability supersedes the one presented in the PHB". It was also available online at http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/dx20020202ex. I find the update to be extremely helpful, substantially clarifying an otherwise vague ability.

Incidentally, the description for the polymorph self has also been officially updated in T&B and the PsiHB (I don't have the latter, so I could be wrong). I know the revised version is also available online somewhere, but I don't have the link handy.

 

[Drawmack]

I don't like it when they publish ''replacement'' rules in non-core rulebooks. Errata I consider part of the core rulebook same with clarifycations. The problem that I have is that the core books cost $30 each for a total of $90 for just those, then to publish rules listed as offiicial replacements in $25.00 splat books (of which there are I think 4) birngs the total for having a game that is core rules equiped to $190.00. This is before dice and minatures. Does WotC think gamers are made of money?

BTW: Your link didn't work and I'm pretty polymorph self in the SRD is the updated version since the magic section was just released a couple of weeks ago.