Impossible to kill a spectra?

[TabulaRasa]

thanks for all the input

I was missing something

Now I have no problem with attacking the party with a Spectre.

I can see that my first plan to let it attack from underneath there feet is silly, and not possible.

Thanks

/Tabula

 

[Pax]

Attacking constantly from below their feet, true, bad idea.

Springing up suddenly from the floor, bahind the rest of the party ... ? Not impossible.

Put some furniture in the room -- with a tiny bit of space between the bottom of the furniture and the floor itself (like old-fashioned dressers and such). Spectre hears people coming towards his lair, slips into the floor, with his head pocking up under the furniture to get a quick assessment of the party's strengths, and maybe figure out which one looks like an obvious cleric or paladin.

Duck down, move forward, and spring up (all within the Spectre's charging movement limit) -- right behind the selected target. Whack 'em.

If the target is close to teh furniture, the pop-up trick might only be a 5' step, so a full attack might be possible.

 

[Dr_Rictus]

Yeah, it is an excellent tactic for the spectre, just not as unbeatable as all that.

 

[TabulaRasa]

If the target is close to the furniture, the pop-up trick might only be a 5' step, so a full attack might be possible.

I think my tactic will be to hide in a shadow near a point where the pc?s most likely will pass. When they are close enough he will hit once and then slip into to the floor or wall.
When he has done that a few times the pc?s will most likely be shaking.

/Tabula

 

[Swami]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: it still doesn?t make sense

If you are inside the floor, you can't hear, feel, or smell their presence.

Can't taste em either.

 

[Pielorinho]

Duck down, move forward, and spring up (all within the Spectre's charging movement limit) -- right behind the selected target. Whack 'em.

If the target is close to teh furniture, the pop-up trick might only be a 5' step, so a full attack might be possible.

Well, unless the spectre is using non-Euclidian physics, ducking down, moving forward, and springing up aren't likely to constitute moving in a straight line. It shouldn't be able to charge (or partial charge, which is important -- see below).

As for the pop-up-5'-away trick, it's very likely that the spectre in question will get a surprise round. In which case, it won't get a full attack: it'll only get a partial attack. It can partial charge, but again Euclidian geometry limits its movement to a straight line. OTOH, if it charges straight across the room while the party is surprised, only folks with combat reflexes will get an AoO. And, being a spectre, it can charge through other party members to get at its victim.

Personally, I think that incorporeal undead need to strike at a person's torso or head to deal their damage: I envision it as damaging their soul. All the beneath-the-floor spectre will be able to hit is their soles.

The attack once, sink into the floor/rise from the floor, attack once routine is very effective for spectres, but as other shave said, readied actions defend against it pretty well. Our group fought a pair of spectres recently and went through this routine with them.

Daniel

 

[Pax]

Piel, I figured the Spectre to be spending the "surprise round" refocussing.

I don't consider ducking to be a movement per se; I mean, crouching slightly as it flies forward. If you prefer, it can fly straight at the character, it just has to be more selective, and no try to take anyone in the middle of the group (or else, if the group is flatfooted, accept the risk one or mroe have Combat Reflexes to get AoOs).

I've never read "in a straight line" to require characters to hop about like pieces on a chessboard. If a straight line can be drawn from start to target, without obstacles -- then you -can- charge, if your "map square" movement stays as close as humanly posible TO said line, and falls within your movement allowance.

Yes, that includes three-dimensional movement, IMO.

 

[Pielorinho]

I don't consider ducking to be a movement per se; I mean, crouching slightly as it flies forward. If you prefer, it can fly straight at the character, it just has to be more selective, and no try to take anyone in the middle of the group (or else, if the group is flatfooted, accept the risk one or mroe have Combat Reflexes to get AoOs).

I guess that makes sense -- although I'd resolve this using the tumble rules. Either the spectre is passing through other folks' squares, or it is not. If it is not passing through other folks' squares, then it's not moving in a straight line; if it is, then it needs to make a tumble check to avoid drawing an AoO.

I think I see what you're saying. I'd just resolve it differently.

Daniel

 

[Celebrim]

Well, leaving aside the question of whether a sufficiently intelligent incorporal creature with the right terrain, and right set of feats and skills is invicible with regards to corporal opponents, I do want to quibble with the assessment that some who is buried in a solid object is deaf. Let us not forget that sound actually travels more effectively in solid objects than it does in air. This is the that people put thier ear to the ground to hear things in a distance, or put thier ears to a door or wall to eaves drop, or listen to the rails to determine whether a train is coming, and so on and so forth. Assuming that the incorporeal creature can hear corporal creatures, then being inside a pillar of stone or in a floor should not hamper its hearing one bit.

Now, I'm off to create an advanced spectre with blind-sight 5' radius and an appropriate dungeon environment for such a monstrousity.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I do want to quibble with the assessment that some who is buried in a solid object is deaf. Let us not forget that sound actually travels more effectively in solid objects than it does in air.

We're not actually suggesting it's deaf... just that it can't use Listen to pinpoint characters. If you put your ear to the door, all you know is that the sound is coming from the door - not really where in the room on the other side that sound was made.

-Hyp.