Improved Grapple?
- Thread starter Vander
- Start date
whatisitgoodfor
First Post
OA has the improved grapple feat.
IIRC
Improved Grapple [General]
Prereq: IUS
Benefit: Whenever you succesfully make an unarmed melee attack, you may immediately enter in to a grapple, skipping the touch attack and attack of oppertunity.
I think that was about it, but there may have been another prereq there.
IIRC
Improved Grapple [General]
Prereq: IUS
Benefit: Whenever you succesfully make an unarmed melee attack, you may immediately enter in to a grapple, skipping the touch attack and attack of oppertunity.
I think that was about it, but there may have been another prereq there.
Improved Unarmed Strike is the only prerequisite that I recall.
But check this page to be sure:
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/feats.asp
And yep, IUS is the only prerequisite.
An expert grappler should also look at taking Choke Hold, Earth's Embrace (both from OA), Weapon Focus (unarmed strike) and Weapon Focus (grapple) to really get some squeeze on the opposition.
I've got some questions about grappling Monk's and these feats with the sage at the moment. When I get them back, I'll post them on the boards.
But check this page to be sure:
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/feats.asp
And yep, IUS is the only prerequisite.
An expert grappler should also look at taking Choke Hold, Earth's Embrace (both from OA), Weapon Focus (unarmed strike) and Weapon Focus (grapple) to really get some squeeze on the opposition.
I've got some questions about grappling Monk's and these feats with the sage at the moment. When I get them back, I'll post them on the boards.
CRGreathouse
Community Supporter
Weapon Finesse (unarmed strike) is great, too.
Ranger REG
Explorer
Actually, it's called Improved Grab, and it's available as a creature's special attack (see Monster Manual, page 9).Vander said:
Improved Grapple feat (available for characters) first appeared in the new Oriental Adventures.
If you don't want to spend $35 for OA, you can find the Improved Grapple feat in Dragon #290, in the Justicar prestige class article (page 91).
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I am going to avoid the "M" word...
Is is just me, or is Improved Grapple a bit (read: lot) overpowered? It allows you to make a free grapple attempt every time you hit someone with an unarmed strike without provoking AoOs. For free. As a bonus to the normal attack. No AoO. I think it's way too good and I'm the one playing the monk who is going to take the feat!
So we decided to rewrite it to do nothing more than remove the AoO for grapple attempts. That seems a lot more reasonable.
Anybody else have this concern? Are we overreacting or missing something obvious?
Is is just me, or is Improved Grapple a bit (read: lot) overpowered? It allows you to make a free grapple attempt every time you hit someone with an unarmed strike without provoking AoOs. For free. As a bonus to the normal attack. No AoO. I think it's way too good and I'm the one playing the monk who is going to take the feat!
So we decided to rewrite it to do nothing more than remove the AoO for grapple attempts. That seems a lot more reasonable.
Anybody else have this concern? Are we overreacting or missing something obvious?
You're not overreacting -- its immensely powerful. It's even better than Improved Grab (the one that monsters get), and Improved Grab is incredibly good. (The difference is that you don't have a size restriction with Improved Grapple).
It's still very very good with your modification (removing the AoO). I take it that you'll rule that if you are successful with a hit to start the grapple, that hit won't do damage?
Otherwise, it's not really any different than the feat was to begin with.
It's still very very good with your modification (removing the AoO). I take it that you'll rule that if you are successful with a hit to start the grapple, that hit won't do damage?
Otherwise, it's not really any different than the feat was to begin with.
whatisitgoodfor
First Post
I think the text of the feat is good, basically allowing characters to get the Improved Grab (ex) ability.
However, I do agree that the Prereqs are a bit lax.
Adding Str13+, Dodge, and Mobility to the prereqs might help it out a lot. They should also help to emphasize the strength of the grip needed and the quickness with which the character moves in order to do this.
However, I do agree that the Prereqs are a bit lax.
Adding Str13+, Dodge, and Mobility to the prereqs might help it out a lot. They should also help to emphasize the strength of the grip needed and the quickness with which the character moves in order to do this.
After having a look through the FAQ on the weekend, it looks like that Improved Grab allows a creature to start a grapple after a successful natural attack, but that a successful grapple does not result in additional damage (unless it has constrict or similar).
I'd say that the Improved Grapple feat works the same way. That is, it skips the 'grab' step and moves straight onto the 'hold' step (except that the hold does no damage at this stage as it was done as part of the attack).
Of course, once a hold has been established (then the move-in and grapple) subsequent attacks in the same round could be used to deal damage or pin the opponent.
I'd say that the Improved Grapple feat works the same way. That is, it skips the 'grab' step and moves straight onto the 'hold' step (except that the hold does no damage at this stage as it was done as part of the attack).
Of course, once a hold has been established (then the move-in and grapple) subsequent attacks in the same round could be used to deal damage or pin the opponent.
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