Improved Invisibility: Whats up with that???

[K'Plah Q'Houme]

My group and I, recently had an encounter with 3 red wizards of mid level. We are all curently 17 level and my character has an apprentice on 13'th level. We are 3 figrtertype characters and one spell caster, and these 3 wizards who were all improved invisible, turned out to be our most dangerous fight ever. This made me wonder, and think, that it was unfair, and that there must be some kind of balance question to this spell, that have to be considered.
The chracter I play specialize in critical attacks, and doing so I deal out a lot of dammage, but never am I invincible. The improved invisible and flying wizard is nealy invincible is he not? And he can be so at 7'th level! I take all the feats I can get, to become better at my critical attacks, I wield a keen weapon and so on. The PC who designed his wizard character on a template of improved invisibility could use his other spells to enhance his allready superior position. Spells like "scry, teleport, time stop, levitate, mirror image, greater dispelling, delayed blast fireball" and son on, are all spells that would enhance his position when he is improved invisible. Thus meeting a 17 level wizard, who played a style like this, would make it almost impossible to win the fight, if you are a fighter class character. This can't be right. I know that the general opinion is that wizards (spell casters) are the most powerfull class of the game, but I think this is a problem and not a blessing. There schould be no 'best character', and this can be done by removing some rules here and there from the game.

 

[hong]

See, a well-constructed 17th level character really needs to have the following abilities, assuming a by-the-book campaign. If you're not a spellcaster, you can get these via items -- that's what the 400,000 gp worth of gear is for.

- see invisible/true seeing: for the encounters you describe
- fly: too many reasons to list
- dimension door/teleport: you can't count on the wiz being there all the time
- +5 resistance: failing a save vs an instakill rather sucks
- fortification: crits and sneak attacks are bad
- freedom of movement: so is being grappled by a melee brute monster
- death ward/ghost touch: so is fighting incorporeal, draining undead


Of course, this still rather begs the question of why these abilities _should_ be must-haves in the first place.

 

[swrushing]

Your heart is bleeding all over my screen. Please to stop.

If you keep this up, you'll go blind, you know.

Thanks for the dialog. I certainly had not considered these reasoned positions in my earlier posts.

Enjoy your games.

 

[hong]

Thanks for the dialog. I certainly had not considered these reasoned positions in my earlier posts.

Enjoy your games.

You're new. I forgive you.

 

[swrushing]

[/QUOTE]

It eludes me that many of you guys don't seem to think, that having magic users with potent spells like imp. invis. isn't a problem for the game.

OK, i will try and cut through your confusion.

Is it fun to become nearly untouchable at lvl. 7?

Ok to answer the question: Nope, its not fun to become invulnerable at level 7. That would be a dull game, if that were the case. Maybe some Gms run those type of games, but I dont.

See, having improved invis and fly does not mean you are untouchable at level 7. Its means you are challengeable by DIFFERENT things than at lower levels.

Take a simple example... a raging river with no ford. At 2nd level this is a serious obstacle. It may even be life threatening to cross. Oh, man, what will we do? Drama.

By third level, with alter self, we might be able to fly one guy across with a rope. Now, less threatening. Still might fall, might not be a good anchor spot, so still some drama.

At seventh level, we have fly spells, water breathing, and maybe even dimension doors at our beck and call. So now its just a nuissance. It might slow us a little. Its not a threat and provides no inherent drama.

So you see, amazingly, at seventh level the same simple one trick pony threats are not threatening as they once were. We have evolved beyond those being dramatic. The GM needs to advance the nature of the challenges to things more complicated or at least things which are challenges.

Also note, throwing a bigger river that is more raging wont do the trick. Its the one dimensional nature of the challenge, the simplicity of the threat, that is making that threat and challenge go obsolete, not how big it is.

Now, if you replace "raging river" with "low mobility, limited ranged, non-magic brute force opposition" in the examples above, youb get pretty much the same picture. The Gm cannot just throw a bigger brute squad and figure that will keep it relevent.

So, now, its not that we like being untouchable at 7th... its that we dont become untouchable at 7th... there are plenty of threats and challenges our GMs throw at us that, whoa boy, are very challenging. The fact that the raging river is now a relatively non-issue and the brute squads no longer make us tremble in fear merely shows us we have advanced.

Its actually kinda cool at times to run into formerly hard encounters that are now easily handled, it shows us progress.

Now this does not mean that brute squads are worthless after low levels any more than rivers are useless after mid levels. It means that scenarios where the GM wants those to be significant need to be crafted to be so. The river can be a real issue when the PCs do not have time or spells or the freedom to use them such as when being pursued or when needing spells for later. A brute squad can have a mage or a cleric or even just a few items for magical support or even an unsupported brute squad possibly can be set in a setting or environment where the fly thing is less viable (visibility issues, confined spaces, adequate cover and time constraint, etc etc etc.)

 

[swrushing]

You're new. I forgive you.

Thanks again!

 

[hong]

Thanks again!

As punishment, I sentence you to look up the example of the seven and a half billion chickens, and keep it in mind the next time you feel tempted to say anything about the internal consistency of D&D.

 

[swrushing]

As punishment, I sentence you to look up the example of the seven and a half billion chickens, and keep it in mind the next time you feel tempted to say anything about the internal consistency of D&D.

thats just too cool for words.

thanks again.

 

[hong]

thats just too cool for words.

thanks again.

To earn points toward early release, I recommend you consider the difference between onstage and offstage events, with particular application to incidence of magic, and keep it in mind the next time the subject arises of what encounters the D&D rules mandate.

 

[swrushing]

To earn points toward early release, I recommend you consider the difference between onstage and offstage events, with particular application to incidence of magic, and keep it in mind the next time the subject arises of what encounters the D&D rules mandate.

hmmm... sweet.. like fresh hot donut oozing glaze

thanks again.