Improved Trip maneuvers

[bensei]

I was just thinking of two more extraordinary maneuvers. Do you think they work:

1:
Character has Improved Trip and Quick Draw feats and BAB 11.
- Stand 10ft. from opponent
- Draw Whip (proficient) and make trip attack (bonus to Str check from IT feat). Assume successful.
- Drop Whip
- Make 5ft. step towards the opponent
- Draw Greatsword
- Make 3 attacks (+11/+6/+1) against prono opponent

2:
Character has Improved Trip feat and can cast touch spells.
- Stand 10ft. from opponent
- Cast Inflict Light Wounds
- Make 5ft. step towards the opponent
- Make an unarmed trip attack (no AoO for two reasons). Assume successful. So opponent prone. Question: Is spell already discharged?
- If no. Now do the touch attack (bonus because opponent prone).
- If yes. Cast quickened Inflict Light Wounds and do a second touch attack against a now prone target.

 

[mooby]

I don't know the answers to your questions, but I just wanted to keep this at the top of the forum.

Trip fighters are really underrated, and a lot of fun!

 

[Stalker0]

To the first question I believe its completely doable, the only thing to check is can you make a 5ft step between attacks, but I'm preety sure you can.

As for number two, not sure.

 

[TuDogz]

The second scenario uses two standard actions. One for the casting and one for trip attempt. So you would have to start with the quickened inflict not be able to follow-up with one.

Contact with a character that has a touch spell active discharges it, wether you want it to or not. So yes it should discharge during the unarmed trip attempt.

from the SRD:
_________
If you touch anything or anyone while holding a charge, even unintentionally, the spell discharges.
_________

 

[Elvinis75]

I was just thinking of two more extraordinary maneuvers. Do you think they work:

1:
Character has Improved Trip and Quick Draw feats and BAB 11.
- Stand 10ft. from opponent
- Draw Whip (proficient) and make trip attack (bonus to Str check from IT feat). Assume successful.
- Drop Whip
- Make 5ft. step towards the opponent
- Draw Greatsword
- Make 3 attacks (+11/+6/+1) against prono opponent against a now prone target.

I thought that the feat IT says that you make the attack immediately?!?
After a 5' step is not immediately?! Right?
At the point of immediately the drop and draw are free actions but the 5' step isn't. I would think that this doesn't work. At 10' away

Improved Trip [General]
Prerequisites: Int 13+, Expertise.
Benefit: If the character trips an opponent in melee combat, the character immediately gets a melee attack against that opponent as if the character hadn’t used the character's attack for the trip attempt.

 

[Magic Slim]

1: As Elvinis pointed out, the attack doesn't occur immediately after the trip attempt. IMO, it wouldn't work from 10' away (unless you had a reach weapon).

2: The spell is discharged with the melee touch needed to initiate the trip attempt, unless you cast Inflict on your right hand and trip with your left. Of course, 3.5 got rid of handedness IIRC, so that would be a no-no.

Slim

 

[Nail]

Neither of these could be done in only one round, without some sort of Haste or Quickened wonkiness.

 

[bensei]

Thanks for the replies.

The second scenario uses two standard actions. One for the casting and one for trip attempt.

A trip is clearly stated as a substitute for a melee attack, and not an action. In particular a trip attempt is not a standard action. And when casting a touch spell, you get one attack to do a touch attack. Since a touch attack is an attack, you can do a trip attempt with this attack.

Contact with a character that has a touch spell active discharges it, wether you want it to or not. So yes it should discharge during the unarmed trip attempt.

Okay. I was just unsure. So this also works.

I thought that the feat IT says that you make the attack immediately?!?
After a 5' step is not immediately?! Right?
At the point of immediately the drop and draw are free actions but the 5' step isn't. I would think that this doesn't work. At 10' away.

Thank you. I completely missed the "immediately". So taking a step in between does not work. Fine.
However, the question stays, if free actions are indeed allowed in between, or if also this is forbidden by the word "immediately". You say that free actions are allowed. Is there a clear wording for this?
With this, the first maneuver would work without taking the 5' step, e.g. by dropping the whip and taking a ranseur.

Stays the problem with the second maneuver. It all works up to the successful trip attack, which the touch spell is discharged with. Now the character gets an "immediate" melee attack, so again the question: Can he take a free action in between, e.g. casting a quickened spell?

Neither of these could be done in only one round, without some sort of Haste or Quickened wonkiness.

Haste (3.5) would not help in any case. Ad quickened, see above.

 

[Magic Slim]

With this, the first maneuver would work without taking the 5' step, e.g. by dropping the whip and taking a ranseur.

I wouldn't mind allowing it. Spending a feat on quickdraw to pull of this meneuvre is pretty much the same thing as spending a feat on Spiked Chain and not having to change weapons between the trip and the free attack.

Stays the problem with the second maneuver. It all works up to the successful trip attack, which the touch spell is discharged with. Now the character gets an "immediate" melee attack, so again the question: Can he take a free action in between, e.g. casting a quickened spell?

Hm. Is the melee touch attack that comes with casting a touch attack spell Quickened as well? I'm not saying it isn't, I'm just not sure.

Come to think of it, that's pretty irrelevant:
1) Inflict Wound active
2) Melee touch attack to trip opponent. Inflict spell is discharged.
3) Free action: Quickened Inflict spell
4) Free attack granted by Improved Trip.

I guess that would also be OK.

Slim

 

[Elvinis75]

Thanks for the replies.

Thank you. I completely missed the "immediately". So taking a step in between does not work. Fine.
However, the question stays, if free actions are indeed allowed in between, or if also this is forbidden by the word "immediately". You say that free actions are allowed. Is there a clear wording for this?
With this, the first maneuver would work without taking the 5' step, e.g. by dropping the whip and taking a ranseur.

I’m not sure that you can take free actions before but as a DM I would allow it because the SRD defines free actions as:
Free Action: A character can perform one or more free actions while taking another action normally. However, the DM puts reasonable limits on what a character can really do for free.

So when it says “while taking another action(s) normally” I believe that means that you ignore them when looking at the rules of what you can do, up to a limit. So I think that with a reach weapon that you could do what you had planned without the move.