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Improved Trip maneuvers
- Thread starter bensei
- Start date
quote:
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A trip is clearly stated as a substitute for a melee attack, and not an action. In particular a trip attempt is not a standard action.
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From the SRD:
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STANDARD ACTIONS
Attack
Making an attack is a standard action.
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Having said that you are right about being granted an attack attempt with the casting of a single action touch range spell. Just pointing out that an attack is a standard action and since a trip attempt can be used for an attack a trip attempt is also a standard action.
___________
A trip is clearly stated as a substitute for a melee attack, and not an action. In particular a trip attempt is not a standard action.
___________
From the SRD:
_________________
STANDARD ACTIONS
Attack
Making an attack is a standard action.
_________________
Having said that you are right about being granted an attack attempt with the casting of a single action touch range spell. Just pointing out that an attack is a standard action and since a trip attempt can be used for an attack a trip attempt is also a standard action.
bensei
First Post
Well, okay. That is a question of playing with words.
The point is that a pure formulation "a trip is a standard action" is wrong. A trip attempt is always replacing an attack (possibly granting an extra attack), and can hence also be a part of the full attack action, in which case it would not be a standard action. It can also be a partial action, e.g. if you are slowed.
So the best is to call a trip attempt never an "action" of any kind, but better a "trip attack".
The point is that a pure formulation "a trip is a standard action" is wrong. A trip attempt is always replacing an attack (possibly granting an extra attack), and can hence also be a part of the full attack action, in which case it would not be a standard action. It can also be a partial action, e.g. if you are slowed.
So the best is to call a trip attempt never an "action" of any kind, but better a "trip attack".
Nail
First Post
A point of clarification, please.
Can you cast a touch spell, take a 5 foot step, then attack someone with it?
That would seem to be:
Normally the touch attack action is incorporrated into the spell. The problem here, as I see it, is that 5 ft step. Someone point me to a spot in the SRD?
Can you cast a touch spell, take a 5 foot step, then attack someone with it?
That would seem to be:
- A standard action (cast spell)
- a 5 ft step
- another standard action (a touch attack)
Normally the touch attack action is incorporrated into the spell. The problem here, as I see it, is that 5 ft step. Someone point me to a spot in the SRD?
dravot
First Post
From the SRD (http://www.wizards.com/d20/files/v35/MagicOverview.rtf):Nail said:
Touch Spells and Holding the Charge: In most cases, if you don’t discharge a touch spell on the round you cast it, you can hold the charge (postpone the discharge of the spell) indefinitely. You can make touch attacks round after round. If you cast another spell, the touch spell dissipates.
Some touch spells allow you to touch multiple targets as part of the spell. You can’t hold the charge of such a spell; you must touch all targets of the spell in the same round that you finish casting the spell.
It's not clear for your question. I'd rule it as ok, but YMMV.
(edit: cut and past of text resulted in black text on grey background...not really very helpful
)
Last edited:
Silverglass
Registered User
From the SRD Combat section.
Touch Spells in Combat: Many spells have a range of touch. To use these spells, you cast the spell and then touch the subject, either in the same round or any time later. In the same round that you cast the spell, you may also touch (or attempt to touch) the target. You may take your move before casting the spell, after touching the target, or between casting the spell and touching the target. You can automatically touch one friend or use the spell on yourself, but to touch an opponent, you must succeed on an attack roll.
So yes you can Cast - Move - Touch in the same round.
Touch Spells in Combat: Many spells have a range of touch. To use these spells, you cast the spell and then touch the subject, either in the same round or any time later. In the same round that you cast the spell, you may also touch (or attempt to touch) the target. You may take your move before casting the spell, after touching the target, or between casting the spell and touching the target. You can automatically touch one friend or use the spell on yourself, but to touch an opponent, you must succeed on an attack roll.
So yes you can Cast - Move - Touch in the same round.
bensei
First Post
Okay.
So putting stuff together, one can use the feats Improved Trip and Quick Draw to cast a spell and attack in one round (even in 3.5):
- Stand 10ft. from opponent.
- Cast Inflict ... Wounds.
- Make 5ft. step towards the opponent.
- Make an unarmed trip attack. Assume successful. Opponent tripped and has taken damage from spell.
- Draw Sword (free action, no AoO because opponent prone).
- Make your attack granted by the IT feat.
So putting stuff together, one can use the feats Improved Trip and Quick Draw to cast a spell and attack in one round (even in 3.5):
- Stand 10ft. from opponent.
- Cast Inflict ... Wounds.
- Make 5ft. step towards the opponent.
- Make an unarmed trip attack. Assume successful. Opponent tripped and has taken damage from spell.
- Draw Sword (free action, no AoO because opponent prone).
- Make your attack granted by the IT feat.
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