Improved Trip maneuvers

[Elvinis75]

Does being prone mean that you no longer threaten the squares around you?

wait drawing a sword doesn't draw an AOO 3.0 or 3.5
It isn't the fact that he is prone

 

[bensei]

Thanks.
That's exactly what I just wanted to post.
Besides the fact that I'm stupid.

And I think (I do not find anything opposing that) that even if you are prone you do threaten the area of your weapon's reach, you just have -4 to hit. This actually seem to work even for spiked chains and other reach weapons.

 

[barsoomcore]

Looks impossible to me. You are making two standard actions here -- casting a spell and making an attack. How do you get to do both?

- Stand 10ft. from opponent.
- Cast Inflict ... Wounds. First Standard action
- Make 5ft. step towards the opponent.
- Make an unarmed trip attack. Second Standard Action
- Draw Sword (free action, no AoO because opponent prone).
- Make your attack granted by the IT feat.

 

[barsoomcore]

My apologies, I'm a doofus.

So touch spells are standard actions to cast, unless you intend to touch somebody? Am I the only one who thinks that's screwed up?

 

[barsoomcore]

Okay, wait, here's the relevant bit from the SRD:

To use these spells, you cast the spell and then touch the subject, either in the same round or any time later. In the same round that you cast the spell, you may also touch (or attempt to touch) the target. You may take your move before casting the spell, after touching the target, or between casting the spell and touching the target. You can automatically touch one friend or use the spell on yourself, but to touch an opponent, you must succeed on an attack roll.

The bit in italics is where I start to wonder. It's not clearly saying "When you cast a touch spell you get an extra standard action with which to make a touch attack." It says "you may touch (or attempt to touch) the target." What does that mean?

Unclear, says I. So yeah, under one interpretation, you could do what you want. But on another (for example, if we interpret the above sentence to mean, "If for some reason you still have a standard action available to you after casting the spell (if the spell was cast with the Quicken Spell feat, for example), you may use that action to make a touch attack against an opponent."), you couldn't.

I think you're right and they just couldn't come up with a clear explanation that actually made sense. I mean, either it's a standard action to cast the spell or it isn't, and either making a touch attack is a standard action or it isn't. Apparently, though, while making a touch attack the round AFTER you cast the spell is a standard action, the same attack the round you cast the spell somehow happens faster.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Apparently, though, while making a touch attack the round AFTER you cast the spell is a standard action, the same attack the round you cast the spell somehow happens faster.

You have it exactly.

-Hyp.

 

[Nifelhein]

1:
Character has Improved Trip and Quick Draw feats and BAB 11.
- Stand 10ft. from opponent
- Draw Whip (proficient) and make trip attack (bonus to Str check from IT feat). Assume successful.
- Drop Whip
- Make 5ft. step towards the opponent
- Draw Greatsword
- Make 3 attacks (+11/+6/+1) against prono opponent

As some people pointed out you are taking a standard action plus a full atack here, but you could use the whip and move 5 ft while attacking after you ended you drop it and draw the greatsword, using the following attack granted by IT with the greatsword and also the second and third attacks, workd the same way.

2:
Character has Improved Trip feat and can cast touch spells.
- Stand 10ft. from opponent
- Cast Inflict Light Wounds
- Make 5ft. step towards the opponent
- Make an unarmed trip attack (no AoO for two reasons). Assume successful. So opponent prone. Question: Is spell already discharged?
- If no. Now do the touch attack (bonus because opponent prone).
- If yes. Cast quickened Inflict Light Wounds and do a second touch attack against a now prone target.

This one would use the same logic, cast the spell moving to the square near the opponent, if this would allow an AoO would be up to the dm, the rules don't cover it, as the final action of a spell you can make the touch attack and that would not be allowed to be an attack since you cannot take two standard action on a round, thus no trip attempt.

If you use a quickened spell than you attack making a trip attempt, since you are using the IUnarmed you discharge the spell and can follow with another attack if you trip him, then you can get your second and third attacks.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I wouldn't allow Trip-drop weapon-draw weapon-Improved Trip attack; I don't consider that to be "immediate".

I especially wouldn't allow a 5' step in there.

-Hyp.

 

[Nifelhein]

I wouldn't allow Trip-drop weapon-draw weapon-Improved Trip attack; I don't consider that to be "immediate".

I especially wouldn't allow a 5' step in there.

-Hyp.

Yeah that first thing would be questionable, but you could make the first attack with the whip and then greatsword the enemy to bits. I would allow, quick draw is not as useful as it should since anyone can draw a weapon as part of a movement...

The 5 ft. step can be done while making a full attack, thus you could easily attack and make the second aand third attacks on the opponent with a melee weapon.

Just to clarify I want to say that the Quick Draw feat is the base of the Iaijutsu that can be found on Oriental Adventures, that style is called, in my language, the Style of the Dead Hilt, since the blade is always inside the scabbard leaving only when you strike your opponent, you can see that in the Samurai Showdown game.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I would allow, quick draw is not as useful as it should since anyone can draw a weapon as part of a movement...

Note that a 5' step is not considered movement, and you can't combine the draw with it.

-Hyp.