Improved Unarmed combat questions

[AGGEMAM]

3) It's odd that if you have a dagger and someone draws an AoO from you, you could try to Trip them, but if you were unarmed you can't, even though in both cases you are making an unarmed attack.

That is excatly what what Skip feels you can't and neither do I.

WARNING NOT RULES COMING HERE, SPECULATIVE ONLY

I should explain what I think the Sage says here.

1) A Trip is a unarmed attack.
2) You cannot make an unarmed attack as an AoO.
3) You can make unarmed attacks as AoOs if you are considered armed with your unarmed attack.
4) You can make Trip as an AoO if you are considered armed or have a trip weapon.

 

[Caliban]

Aggemam, the problem is that the rules specifically state that you can replace a normal melee attack with a Trip attack. (See the chart on page 128 of the PHB, the footnote for the "Action Type Varies". )

 

[AGGEMAM]

Aggemam, the problem is that the rules specifically state that you can replace a normal melee attack with a Trip attack. (See the chart on page 128 of the PHB, the footnote for the "Action Type Varies". )

You know I know that, I'm being speculative as to why Skip says what he says. Read above.

 

[IceBear]

That is excatly what what Skip feels you can't and neither do I.

WARNING NOT RULES COMING HERE, SPECULATIVE ONLY

I should explain what I think the Sage says here.

1) A Trip is a unarmed attack.
2) You cannot make an unarmed attack as an AoO.
3) You can make unarmed attacks as AoOs if you are considered armed with your unarmed attack.
4) You can make Trip as an AoO if you are considered armed or have a trip weapon.

I think that might make a good houserule, but it doesn't fit with the rules as written.

I like it in that it gives someone who wants to specialize in Unarmed Combat a little more flexiblity and that it makes Trip weapons a little more useful.

However, as Caliban pointed out, the rules don't seem to support that.

[Edit] I like it so much that I just emailed it to my home account to possibly add to my house rules.

IceBear

 

[AGGEMAM]

I like it in that it gives someone who wants to specialize in Unarmed Combat a little more flexible and that it makes Trip weapons a little more useful.

And I actually also said those are not the rules, but I think that is what Skip thinks should be the rules, right?

 

[IceBear]

And I actually also said those are not the rules, but I think that is what Skip thinks should be the rules, right?

I know that you didn't say those were the rules, I just like stressing when something is a houserule so as to not confuse the rookies

Yes, I think that's what Skip thinks should be the rules...at least that's the only way he could say you can't make an AoO unarmed and be consistent.

IceBear

 

[Caliban]

And I actually also said those are not the rules, but I think that is what Skip thinks should be the rules, right?

I agree with you there.

My point has been that Skip can't just say the PHB is wrong and you should do it his way.

Skips way may or may not be better, but it's a house rule, and he shouldn't be saying that his way is the way it works in the core rules.

 

[Tar-Edhel]

I should explain what I think the Sage says here.

1) A Trip is a unarmed attack.
2) You cannot make an unarmed attack as an AoO.
3) You can make unarmed attacks as AoOs if you are considered armed with your unarmed attack.
4) You can make Trip as an AoO if you are considered armed or have a trip weapon.

I, for one, agree with you on this. I think that's exactly what Skip meant.

But still, I disagree with him on this and it seems that officially, so does WotC since it's not supported by the rules nor in the FAQs.

And even if it ever gets there, I'll keep the unarmed AoO possible for the sheer fun of it. But that belongs to another forum

 

[AGGEMAM]

Thinking a little more about the House Rule Skip proposes can be boiled down to one sentence, which is inserted in the AoO section of the Unarmed Attack rules on page 140 of the PHB, if you as I decide to use it.

HR #: You cannot make 'unarmed' unarmed AoOs.

This single sentence will achieve all the points made before.

 

[Taloras]

On page 140 of the PHB, it states that a monk, a character witht he Improved Unarmed Strike feat, a spellcaster delivering a touch attack spell, and a creature with claws, fangs, and similar natural weapons all count as armed for both offense and defense. Not only do they not provoke an attack of opportunity when attacking an armed foe, but you provoke an attack of opportunity when attacking unarmed against a monk.