Improving and Changing The Assassin

[Sekket]

Full sneak attack progression... check.
Easy, early access to class... check.
Rogue BAB... check.
(Improved) Uncanny Dodge... check.
Hide in Plain Sight... check.
Usefull spell list... check.
Poison use ability... check.

So far, so good...

"Could have been much better" class feature... saves vs poison... check. :\
Death attack... ... with a low save... :\ ... that requires you continue taking levels in the class to buff up the save... check...

So I was thinking about something to replace the save vs poison thing, and how to play around with Death Attack so that it doesnt require you to stick with the class just to even have a hope of a chance of succeeding on a death attack. [Note: I do see a reason to not have death attacks save sickeningly high]

Poison DCs have always been on the low side, so much so that after 5th lvl I [generally playing a high con rogue or fighter] dont even worry about them, unless I hear my DM saying something about Godsblood, preepic What if every other level, the assassin could increase the DC of all the poisons he used, in place of upping his save versus them? Perhaps a one time +2 save vs poison at lvl 5 or something would be flavor appropriate, but I think a bonus to the assassins poison DCs would be called for, at least at higher levels, when an assassins poisons only affect the target when it rolls a natural 1.

What if an Assassins death attack is less of a sneak attack with a small chance to insta-kill, and a bit more of an assassination attempt? Perhaps sacrificing d6's of sneak attack damage for a bonus to the attacks save? Perhaps not have it be a death attack at all - perhaps you just deal lots of Con damage. (sacrifice 2d6 sneak attack, deal an extra 1 con loss, with your levels in assassin aiding this)

Int doesnt seem to make too much sense for the save, but I can see why it was set up that way [and it certainly doesnt hurt the skill heavy rogue]. What if you had to make a knowledge (something appropriate) check with your assassin class level as a bonus, against a DC based off of the targets CR and type, to find out how best to strike? Once you have done that [perhaps each attempt to find how to strike takes 3 rounds, and you have to keep trying until you know how, then you must strike within 3 rounds or you loose the benefit] you may use your Dex to affect the save, if it is higher.

Just throwing ideas out there, tell me what you think and how youve run the assassin in your campaign.

 

[Angel Tarragon]

Instant kills are not a good thing. Especially when the GM has developed a favorite NPC that you just happened to off by pure luck. Also imagine the situation revesed. Your 12th level character that you have developed a rich history and background for has been carefully thought out and you know the characters tactics, now all of a sudden an NPC assassin off your beloved character. The real thing to think about however, is your GMs stance on the resurrection and true resurrection spells.

 

[Sekket]

Let me see if I can throw together a hypothetical progression for an Assassin.

REQUIREMENTS:
Alignment: Any evil.
Skills: Disguise 4 ranks, Hide 8 ranks, Move Silently 8 ranks.
Special: The character must kill someone for no other reason than to join the assassins.

HP gen: d6
Skills: 6 [Normal: 4]

LVL BAB  FRW Special
1    0   020 Sneak Attack +1d6, Poison Use, Spells, Death Attack, Paralytic Attack
2    1   030 Improved Potency +1, uncanny dodge 
3    1   131 Sneak Attack +2d6
4    2   141 Improved Potency +2
5    2   141 Sneak Attack +3d6, improved uncanny dodge
6    3   252 Improved Potency +3
7    3   252 Sneak Attack +4d6
8    4   262 Improved Potency +4, hide in plain sight
9    4   363 Sneak Attack +5d6
10   5   373 Improved Potency +5, Improved Death Attack

Sneak AttacK: This is exactly like the rogue ability of the same name. The extra damage dealt increases by +1d6 every other level (2nd, 4th, 6th, 8th, and 10th). If an assassin gets a sneak attack bonus from another source the bonuses on damage stack.

Poison Use:  Assassins are trained in the use of poison and never risk accidentally poisoning themselves when applying poison to a blade, or improving the potency of his poisons. [as per the class feature, Improved Potency]

Spells: [as normal]

Death Attack: If an assassin studies his victim for 3 rounds and then makes an attack with a melee weapon, which must meet the same prerequisites as a Sneak Attack, this attack is called a Death Attack and the Assassin gains a bonus equal to one half his class level (round up) to the attack roll. This Death Attack must successfully deal damage
 in order for any other Death Attack specific effects to take place.


Sneak Attack damage applies normally. [note: merely because this attack is called a death attack does not mean that it is a death attack to the exclusion of a sneak attack.] Additionally any Death Attack against anyone immune to critical hits automatically fails.

While studying the victim, the assassin can undertake other actions so long as his attention stays focused on the target and the target does not detect the assassin or recognize the assassin as an enemy. 

The victim of a Death Attack takes ability damage to thier Constitution score equal to the Assassin's class level. An Assassin may forgo 3 die of sneak attack damage to increase the amount of Consitution damage by 1. A fortitude save (DC 10 + the assassin’s class level + the assassin’s Int modifier) is allowed to half this ability damage. Mettle, Mettle of Fortitude, or Improved Mettle of Fortitude can negate this ability damage. Improved Mettle of Fortitude can also half the ability damage. 

Once the assassin has completed the 3 rounds of study, he must make the death attack within the next 3 rounds [he can continue to study for longer then 3 rounds, but must have had 3 consecutive rounds of study of his target in the last 6 rounds when he attempts his Death Attack].

If a death attack is attempted and fails (the assassin misses his target) or if the assassin does not launch the attack within 3 rounds of completing the study, 3 new rounds of study are required before he can attempt another death attack.

Improved Death Attack: At level 10, an Assassin may forgo 2 die of sneak attack damage to increase the amount of Con damage by 1.

Paralytic Attack: If the assassin attempts a Death Attack while wielding a weapon adept at causing subdual damage (such as a Sap, or any weapon with the Exhausting special ability) which he is proficient with, he may instead attempt a Paralytic Attack. This attack must meet all the same prerequisites as a Death Attack. The Assassin gains one half of his class level (round up) as a bonus to this attack. If the attack hits, and successully deals damage (lethal or nonlethal) the victim must make a fortitude save (DC 10 + the assassin’s class level + the assassin’s Int modifier) or become helpless for 1d6 rounds, and an additional round for every class level the Assassin has.

Improved Potency: An Assassin is highly skilled in the use of poisons. An Assassin may enhance a poison's DC by up to one half his class level, rounded down. Doing so takes materials costing 25% of the base cost of the poison. An Assassin may only use this ability once on any given batch of poison, and if another Assassin attempts to improve the potency the effects overlap and do not stack. Any poison the Assassin prepares personally, from scratch, is automatically enhanced. [Should the Assassin chose to, he may make a batch of poison with a lower enhancement to the DC then what he is capable of, to a minimum of +0]

Notes:

I made the death attack con damage because I wanted the assassin to be nasty, but I understand that instant death is a bad thing [TPK without the party ever realizing they were in combat]. This is why the bonus Con damage from the sneak attack damage unproportional. The Assassin loses 3-18 dmg (avg 10.5 dmg) to deal a single extra point of Con damage, which really seems to be a bad trade off for the Assassin, until you realize it is entirely possible that from the damage the assassin has already dealt that the target might be at 1 con, and have more then 20 hp... in which case, you would want to deal Con damage to the target.

I also gave the Assassin 2 extra skill points per level, as I see them as being fighters relying almost entirely upon skill.

I dropped the Assassin's BAB to poor and gave them a bonus on all Death/Paralytic Attacks to thier attack roll. Assassin's should loose in toe to toe combat, but shine in backstabbing.

Comments?

 

[Sgain]

The way I see it Assassins aren't fighters at all. They are specialists who use stealth and skill to find a weakness on their opponent and then they do an all or nothing attack hoping to incapacitate or kill. In actual combat they just can't compete against fighter types who easily mow them down, so they rely instead upon escape skills and possibly distraction skills (the ninja used explosive flash devices, or blew powders into opponents faces).

I certainly wouldn't give them Hide in Plain sight ability, as that belongs to the Shadow Dancer and is its only real advantage. I'd say they spend a lot of skill points on hide and move silently, but once they blow their cover they must escape.

Perhaps an improved base movement like a monk or barbarian, except its a feat that lasts 2x their CON in rounds or something?

cya

 

[Rystil Arden]

This makes the assassin extremely potent, mainly the fact that the target still takes half Con damage on a successful save. At high levels, the loss of 8 Con on a successful save (the most I can reasonably see any assassin doing) is a massive blow, dealing more than twice the damage that the sacrificed 12d6 Sneak Attack would garner on average in max HP loss, as well as lowering Fortitude save for the Improved Potency Con damage poison that the Assassin no doubt put on the Weapon. A level 20 Fighter with 18 Con and a +5 Cloak of Resistance who gets hit with a Death Attack with a weapon coated in DC 25 Black Lotus extract will probably make his save against the Death Attack (needs a 2 if the Assassin has 18 Int) and go down to 10 Con, allowing him to make the two saves for the Black Lotus Extract on an 8. If he fails either, average damage from the Black Lotus kills him.

I'm not saying this is a bad thing, but remember that this is for a character with good Fort save. If this kind of deadliness was your intention, you certainly succeeded !

 

[Seeten]

I think yanking the spells from the assassin(why does assassin have spells anyway? *boggle*) should be enough to keep their bab at 3/4ths. Deadly assassins? Well, thats rather the point, isnt it.

Honestly, what good is poison if you cant affect a fighter with it? Do you only plan to poison old maids, and wizards? In short, Instakill is bad, and huge ability dmg is bad, especially if a made save results in huge ability damage, but improved potency on poison is good.

I like the idea of an improved way to force a foe to be flat footed and drop death attack totally. Regular sneak attack is deadly enough. Druids and monks can be immune to poison, why not poisoners?

 

[Rystil Arden]

I think yanking the spells from the assassin(why does assassin have spells anyway? *boggle*) should be enough to keep their bab at 3/4ths. Deadly assassins? Well, thats rather the point, isnt it.

Honestly, what good is poison if you cant affect a fighter with it? Do you only plan to poison old maids, and wizards? In short, Instakill is bad, and huge ability dmg is bad, especially if a made save results in huge ability damage, but improved potency on poison is good.

I like the idea of an improved way to force a foe to be flat footed and drop death attack totally. Regular sneak attack is deadly enough. Druids and monks can be immune to poison, why not poisoners?

I agree that the poison DC enhancement is not a problem at all, it was the synergy with massive Con damage and the poison DC enhancement that seemed very scary. If you replace the massive Con damage Death Attack with an Improved Feint a la Invisible Blade to make things flat-footed more, keeping the poison, it shouldn't be too bad (although it would cut a bit into the Invisible Blade's thunder, especially since IB is harder to qualify and requires use of daggers).

 

[Seeten]

I think it depends on how many of these PrC's you actually have running around your campaign world.

I tend to like limiting the amount of PrC's to the standards, and individual PC's can have a weird PrC if it suits concept, but I'd rather the standard ones fit the standard concept mold better, rather than worrying about synergy with Invisible Blade, or Ninja, or what not.

To me, Assassin has been part of AD&D since the '70's. I prefer to fix Assassin even if that breaks IB, because I can handwave IB right out of the campaign. =)

If a PC wants the IB PrC, I'd be likelier to make the name of IB "Assassin" and call it a special arm of the guild.

Not sure we need quite as many PrC's as we have, what 4000? heh.

 

[Rystil Arden]

I think it depends on how many of these PrC's you actually have running around your campaign world.

I tend to like limiting the amount of PrC's to the standards, and individual PC's can have a weird PrC if it suits concept, but I'd rather the standard ones fit the standard concept mold better, rather than worrying about synergy with Invisible Blade, or Ninja, or what not.

To me, Assassin has been part of AD&D since the '70's. I prefer to fix Assassin even if that breaks IB, because I can handwave IB right out of the campaign. =)

If a PC wants the IB PrC, I'd be likelier to make the name of IB "Assassin" and call it a special arm of the guild.

Not sure we need quite as many PrC's as we have, what 4000? heh.

Right, I was just beginning to question my own judgment, since the IB only gives free Feint to people using daggers, and that's nearly the only good ability of IB, so an assassin who can do it with any weapon and has some other cool abilities might be too strong.

 

[Technik4]

A couple years ago I posted my alt assasin on these boards.

Same BAB (Rogue)
Same HD (d6 Rogue)
Same Saves (Ref Good, rest Poor)
Same Skills (4 + Int, same list)
No Spells
Sneak Attack +7d6 over 10 levels (the 3 levels you don't get sneak attack damage, you get nifty assasin ability)

Unfortunately, I honestly don't remember the nifty assasin abilities. I prefer modular PrCs which force choice abilities, so I think there was at least one level where you had to choose from a list of abilities. Here's some examples:

1: Sneak Attack +1d6, poison-use
2: Uncanny Dodge, Ability*
3: Sneak Attack +2d6
4: Sneak Attack +3d6
5: Sneak Attack +4d6, Improved Uncanny Dodge
6: Ability*
7: Sneak Attack +5d6
8: Sneak Attack +6d6
9: Sneak Attack +7d6
10: Ability*

*- There were a few paths, along with some nice misc assasin abilities.

-Poison Path-
A. Poison Resistance- you gain a bonus to save against poison equal to half your Assasin level (round down).
B. Poison Specialist- there is a 50% chance poison you apply to a weapon (and then wield) will remain on the blade an additional round (allowing you to strike without reapplying).
C. Poison Master- You can distill/extract a more powerful form of a poison. This requires 1 hour of uninterrupted work and access to an alchemist's lab as well as 2 vials of the poison. The resulting single vial of poison has its initial and secondary DC improved by 2. Additionally, your Specialist ability is always 100% when you use these poisons.

-Death Path-
A. Death Attack- As, DMG Assasin.
B. Quicken Death Attack- 1/day you may make a Death Attack after only 1 round of study.
C. Marked for Death- 1/week you may study a subject and launch your Death Attack anytime during the next week. You may not use this ability with Quicken Death Attack. If you study someone else, you lose the original target.

-Misc-
Improved Evasion- Requires Evasion.
Sneak Attack +1d6 (can be taken more than once)
Provaceur Skills- You get the ability to take 10 even under adverse conditions with Hide, Move Silently, and Disguise.

Something along those lines...

Technik