D&D 5E Improving Weapon Damage (+)

[Stormonu]

One of the things I have been considering is giving fighters an ability, feat, weapon style or maneuver that allows them to increase their damage dice with weapon attacks. It's something similar to the martial arts increase the monk gets for unarmed attacks. With the fighter getting extra attacks, I'm not sure when or where though, this should be implemented. Nor whether it should be limited to Fighters, or something also given out to Paladins, Rangers and Barbarians (though I'd sure like to!).

Note: For Great Weapon Master and Sharpshooter, I've already changed it to losing your proficiency bonus to hit (instead of -5) to deal x2 PB damage (instead of a flat +10), if that has an effect on your opinion.

Also, which progression do you think would be better to use?

d4 --> d6 --> d8 --> d10 --> d12/2d6 --> d6+d8 --> 2d8 --> d8 +d10 --> 2d10 --> d10 + d12 --> 2d12.
(This ensures the average increases by 1 point per increase, I don't think handling two different dice will be much of an issue)
or

d4 --> d6 --> d8 --> 1d10 --> 1d12/2d6 --> 2d8 --> 2d10 --> 2d12
(At 2d8 and above, the increase is 2 points, instead of 1)

 

[payn]

I miss crit threat ranges and damage multipliers. Maybe Fighters can get some of those?

 

[Ruin Explorer]

One of the things I have been considering is giving fighters an ability, feat, weapon style or maneuver that allows them to increase their damage dice with weapon attacks. It's something similar to the martial arts increase the monk gets for unarmed attacks. With the fighter getting extra attacks, I'm not sure when or where though, this should be implemented. Nor whether it should be limited to Fighters, or something also given out to Paladins, Rangers and Barbarians (though I'd sure like to!).

Note: For Great Weapon Master and Sharpshooter, I've already changed it to losing your proficiency bonus to hit (instead of -5) to deal x2 PB damage (instead of a flat +10), if that has an effect on your opinion.

Also, which progression do you think would be better to use?

d4 --> d6 --> d8 --> d10 --> d12/2d6 --> d6+d8 --> 2d8 --> d8 +d10 --> 2d10 --> d10 + d12 --> 2d12.
(This ensures the average increases by 1 point per increase, I don't think handling two different dice will be much of an issue)
or

d4 --> d6 --> d8 --> 1d10 --> 1d12/2d6 --> 2d8 --> 2d10 --> 2d12
(At 2d8 and above, the increase is 2 points, instead of 1)

Increasing weapon dice is a great concept, but the difficulty is the lack of design space for it.

Feats - They're already in huge competition with ASIs, and melee combatants have the most Feats which are close to necessary. So probably not great.

Weapon Style - Would likely be a no-brainer choice over most other styles, and you get a very small number of styles ever, unless you get a Feat in which case see the Feat issue again.

Manuever - BMs already get bonus damage.

So just adding it as a bonus ability seems the most sensible way to go.

I wouldn't limit it to Fighters - I'd definitely include basically everyone but Full Casters in it (and maybe even the Full Caster subclasses which were melee-oriented).

One thing that's already weird-as-hell in D&D is that cantrips scale up to level 17, which is actually faster scaling than Fighters get attacks (as they have to stupidly wait to 20 for their last attack), but all non-Fighter classes that get multiple attacks only get 1 extra attack at 5. Which means casters are scaling when non-casters are not. That's just bad design imo. By adding this to other classes as well as Fighters (but not Full Casters) particularly if you had it scale at 11 and 17, you'd be helping the game, frankly.

 

[BookTenTiger]

I think this is a great idea!

Another way to implement it would be to give fighters a "weapon die" they always roll when dealing damage with a weapon. It could start off as a d4 or d6 and grow over time.

So a fighter using a battle-axe would roll a d10 and a d4 for damage. Later they would roll a d10+d6, then d10+d8 and so on.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

I think this is a great idea!

Another way to implement it would be to give fighters a "weapon die" they always roll when dealing damage with a weapon. It could start off as a d4 or d6 and grow over time.

So a fighter using a battle-axe would roll a d10 and a d4 for damage. Later they would roll a d10+d6, then d10+d8 and so on.

That's a good suggestion and may well be a better approach as it's a lot easier to balance. Though I'd probably not go for a steady increase like a monk, but a couple of specific points it kicks in by a larger amount.

 

[delericho]

I like the idea of increasing damage type.

It's also one of the very few reasons I wouldn't object to bringing in some of the more obscure dice types into the game, as they give some space above the d12 for expansion.

 

[James Gasik]

The NPC Gladiator has an ability that increases their weapon damage by one die. Something like that which the Fighter can learn seems perfectly reasonable.

 

[Vaalingrade]

I miss crit threat ranges and damage multipliers. Maybe Fighters can get some of those?

Amen to that. Maybe Fighting Style also comes with a weapon choice that grants the weapon one of these?

 

[DND_Reborn]

One of the things I have been considering is giving fighters an ability, feat, weapon style or maneuver that allows them to increase their damage dice with weapon attacks. It's something similar to the martial arts increase the monk gets for unarmed attacks. With the fighter getting extra attacks, I'm not sure when or where though, this should be implemented. Nor whether it should be limited to Fighters, or something also given out to Paladins, Rangers and Barbarians (though I'd sure like to!).

Before I can respond, I need to ask:

Is there a perceived problem you are trying to solve with this?

Or is this just something you think Fighters (or warriors in general) should have simply "because"?

 

[Stormonu]

Mostly, "because".

As I have been pondering this, I'm wondering if it would make a good "light weapon" fighting style; at level 1 it increases the damage you deal with light weapons to the next higher die, maybe at 5th, 10th, 15th, 20th it goes up a die each time.

It would make a knife-fighter build viable at the least, I would think.

 

[Sacrosanct]

I guess you can say I agree with you. When I did Bugbears&Borderlands, I give them that exact thing:

 

[Minigiant]

Before 5e, back when I was theorizing a homebrew game for my group at the time, I had pondered copying a 4e idea for strikers and letting warriors add the ability bonuses of 2 ability scores to attacks.

They would be be called Weapon Masteries and they'd let you add a Second Ability score modifier to damage rolls. For example Sword Masteries would let you add both your Strength and Dexterity modifier to damage rolls with all swords.

Each weapon using class would get 1--7 Weapon Masteries. Then some classes would get a feature to switch their Secondary score or raise their base minimum Secondary modifier bonus to all Weapon Masteries.

But we ran another's players homebrew instead.

 

[Quickleaf]

Mostly, "because".

As I have been pondering this, I'm wondering if it would make a good "light weapon" fighting style; at level 1 it increases the damage you deal with light weapons to the next higher die, maybe at 5th, 10th, 15th, 20th it goes up a die each time.

It would make a knife-fighter build viable at the least, I would think.

What if... you borrowed from the Weapon Mastery rules in BD&D... something like this...

LONGSWORD
1d8 slashing damage, Versatile (1d10)

• In the hands of a 5th level Fighter, a longsword deals 1d10 slashing damage, Versatile (1d12). The fighter may forgo this damage – using it as a standard 1d8 (1d10) weapon – to instead gain a +1 bonus to AC against melee attacks while holding the longsword and not incapacitated.
• In the hands of an 11th level Fighter, a longsword deals 2d8 slashing damage, Versatile (2d10). The fighter may forgo this damage – using it as a standard 1d8 (1d10) weapon – to instead gain a +2 bonus to AC against melee attacks while holding the longsword and not incapacitated, and +2 on attempts to Disarm.
• In the hands of a 17th level Fighter, a longsword deals 2d10 slashing damage, Versatile (2d12). The fighter may forgo this damage – using it as a standard 1d8 (1d10) weapon – to instead gain a +4 bonus to AC against melee attacks while holding the longsword and not incapacitated, and +4 on attempts to Disarm.

It's a big power-up, but I think you're looking for a big power-up?

 

[aco175]

I like the idea of giving fighters a follower. Somewhere around 6-8th level works since you get the 2nd attacks at 5th level and they could use something there. I would just need to keep it simple like a NPC/monster statblock. I would not want to force another PC on the player, maybe even a sidekick seems a bit much. Although those are the rules set forth from the man.

 

[Stormonu]

Something along those lines might work, but I don't think I want to get to a weapon-by-weapon breakdown. Just something quick, easy to remember and a nice ribbon ability for the fighter-types.

 

[payn]

I like the idea of giving fighters a follower. Somewhere around 6-8th level works since you get the 2nd attacks at 5th level and they could use something there. I would just need to keep it simple like a NPC/monster statblock. I would not want to force another PC on the player, maybe even a sidekick seems a bit much. Although those are the rules set forth from the man.

Maybe only if it was a subclass. I wouldn't want this foisted on all fighters.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Mostly, "because".

As I have been pondering this, I'm wondering if it would make a good "light weapon" fighting style; at level 1 it increases the damage you deal with light weapons to the next higher die, maybe at 5th, 10th, 15th, 20th it goes up a die each time.

It would make a knife-fighter build viable at the least, I would think.

Ok, then I would max it out at 1d8 personally, but 1d10 if you want to mirror Monk, at 5th, 11th, 17th, making it d4 - d6 - d8 - d10.

For me it would be about keeping it balanced with other Fighter builds:

With the Thrown Weapon Fighting Style, you get +2 to damage, just like Dueling. With 4 attacks (level 20), a sword/board would do 4 x (1d8+7), so I wouldn't want a TWFer doing 5 x (1d10+7). That is why I would cap it at d8 to match one-handed weapon maximums.

Especially when you consider the TWFer can deal that damage at range (albeit shortish range). Depending on how prevalent magic weapons are in your game, the sword/board fighter would add that magic weapon damage to each attack, as where it is unlikely the TWFer would have 5+ magical thrown weapons available, so bumping the damage to d10 would be understandably in such cases.

 

[Clint_L]

Seems intriguing - try it out and tell us if it works!

I've been kind of thinking about going the other direction, and getting rid of the sliding damage scale for Monk attacks.

 

[Lojaan]

As a DM I'm becoming more and more uncomfortable with boosting player power by increasing class abilities. The reason is this - it makes it harder to give my players cool stuff.

If all martials have increased damage built in to the class then what's the point or purpose of a flametongue?

On one side we have players saying they want to standardise character progression so they don't have to rely on DMs giving them cool stuff, on the other hand we have DMs struggling to find ways to reward players that don't break the game.

It's a pickle.

 

[pnewman]

One of the things I have been considering is giving fighters an ability, feat, weapon style or maneuver that allows them to increase their damage dice with weapon attacks. It's something similar to the martial arts increase the monk gets for unarmed attacks. With the fighter getting extra attacks, I'm not sure when or where though, this should be implemented. Nor whether it should be limited to Fighters, or something also given out to Paladins, Rangers and Barbarians (though I'd sure like to!).

Note: For Great Weapon Master and Sharpshooter, I've already changed it to losing your proficiency bonus to hit (instead of -5) to deal x2 PB damage (instead of a flat +10), if that has an effect on your opinion.

Also, which progression do you think would be better to use?

d4 --> d6 --> d8 --> d10 --> d12/2d6 --> d6+d8 --> 2d8 --> d8 +d10 --> 2d10 --> d10 + d12 --> 2d12.
(This ensures the average increases by 1 point per increase, I don't think handling two different dice will be much of an issue)
or

d4 --> d6 --> d8 --> 1d10 --> 1d12/2d6 --> 2d8 --> 2d10 --> 2d12
(At 2d8 and above, the increase is 2 points, instead of 1)

What if all Fighters just got some Battlemaster Maneuvers? Then they could use these to do extra damage or other cool fighting things. The easiest way to to this would be by giving out Martial Adept Feat. BattleMasters would still be better at this because their Superiorty dice increase in size and they get the extra Feat too.

You could probably give a few to other Martial characters too. Maybe Fighters get one Feat every tier, while Paladins and Rangers and Monks and Rogues get one every other Tier? You could probably give one to all the casters too, but not until Tier four. Thus:
Fighters get it at L1 & L5 and L 11 & L 17.
Other Martials at L5 & L17
Casters only at L17 (If you can cast Wish it's not unbalancing for you to be a bit better with your dagger too, for the one time in a hundred that the weapon is a better choice.)