In Place of Chainmail?

[mmadsen]

Re: Unfair technological advantage?

PS: is it just me, or does the second-to-last viking on the top row of Viking Set Group 2 have a somewhat unfair technological advantage?

From the description:

These are well detailed soft plastic Viking Warrior figures. There are 23 different poses and 1 bonus Joke pose (armed with scud) included in first issue sets only. Each set has 47 fighting figures in total.

A Scud is a truck-mounted missile. What he's got there is an RPG (Rocket-Propelled Grenade), the Soviet equivalent of a Bazooka or LAW (Light Anti-Tank Weapon).

 

[kenjib]

Re: Unfair technological advantage?

PS: is it just me, or does the second-to-last viking on the top row of Viking Set Group 2 have a somewhat unfair technological advantage?

(Orion Viking blurb 1/3 way down the page)
http://www.atstoysoldiers.axxs.net/index.html

My goodness! Hahahahaha! He's gonna blow up some longships reeeaaaalll good.

 

[mmadsen]

Re: A plea and recommendation to Hasbro

But we never played, because it took me 3 months to assemble and paint all the figs and by that time everyone had lost interest (in fact, I still have to paint Naresh. Sigh.)

It's funny because it's true. I'm just getting around to painting my Lord of the Rings figures...that I got for Christmas.

One advantage to getting a big set of plastic figures is that you can paint your eight Gondorian swordsmen at the same time. Paint all their faces, then wash the brush. Dry-brush all their mail, then wash that brush. And so on. With unique figures, you spend most of your time figuring out how best to paint them, washing up, changing brushes and bottles, etc.

 

[mmadsen]

Re: A plea and recommendation to Hasbro

Wow, all those niches of plastic minis (napoleonics, zulus, etc.) leads me to believe that it would be economically viable to make plastic D&D figs, despite the reported high initial cost of molds.

Those molds go back decades. In fact, some of the "new" figures being put out are reissues of figures put out years ago by now-defunct companies.

I really hope someone from Hasbro reads this thread. I mean, Hasbro makes Axis & Allies; it's ideally equipped to produce mass quantities of cheap plastic minis.

You'd think they could put out a fantasy miniatures game, wouldn't you? Did you see the Star Wars Epic Duel Game that came out with Episode II? It was chock full of plastic Star Wars miniatures, all for $20.

When I was a kid there was a burst in popularity of small plastic vietnam war and WWII figures. These guys were slightly smaller than Grenadier lead miniatures, and certainly much thinner than a cartoony GW fig.

Those are 25 mm "little army men".

But they were cheap, incredibly detailed, and came in a million poses (including Dead Guy poses). It'd be great if Hasbro released D&D figs in that style and scale.

I'd prefer hard plastic, particularly for units with spears, staves, etc., but, yeah, it would be great to see whole sets of cheaper figures.

Also, thanks to Wizkids, it looks like it's getting easier to mass-paint or mass-color little figs. The paint job doesn't compare to hand-painted quality when you hold the figures 4" in front of your nose, but when the figs are on the table you can't tell that one fig was painted by a machine in 3 seconds while the other fig took a skilled gamer 4 hours (not counting cleaning, priming, assembling, pinning, and basing).

Just how do they paint those miniatures?

Hardcore fantasy miniature hobbyists are going to play GW games, and that's that. They want all the crazy conversions, they want to paint eyeballs and individual eyelashes, they want to spend tons of time. The D&D gamer, I think, just wants something cheap and quick that looks like his PC.

I think the D&D gamer would love an awe-inspiring figure for his PC, but unless you paint dozens of figures (to improve your painting skill) -- and buy all the little tools (files, brushes, paints) -- your figure won't be one of the awe-inspiring ones.

Anyway, D&D gamers don't buy armies of expensive metal figures; that's why GW caters to the obsessive miniatures hobbiests.

 

[mmadsen]

Re: Re: A plea and recommendation to Hasbro

Did you see the Star Wars Epic Duel Game that came out with Episode II? It was chock full of plastic Star Wars miniatures, all for $20.

The Star Wars Epic Duels game comes with 31 plastic miniatures -- and 4 Battle Scenes, 12 Character Cards, 28 Wound Markers, 378 Cards, 1 Die, Label Sheet and Instructions -- for $19.95.

If we could just get a D&D Epic Duels game...

 

[CRG]

Anyway, D&D gamers don't buy armies of expensive metal figures; that's why GW caters to the obsessive miniatures hobbiests.

Except me. I don't enjoy their games but I'm an impulsive and obsessed miniatures collector. There needs to be a support group for folks like me.

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Did you see the Star Wars Epic Duel Game that came out with Episode II? It was chock full of plastic Star Wars miniatures, all for $20.
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The Star Wars Epic Duels game comes with 31 plastic miniatures -- and 4 Battle Scenes, 12 Character Cards, 28 Wound Markers, 378 Cards, 1 Die, Label Sheet and Instructions -- for $19.95.

Did you see my post before about the Queen's Gambit game from Hasbro and the ordering of replacement parts? You can order these without buying the game (which is nice, unless you need the box to use for spray-priming the figures).

The more interesting one for Sci-Fi folks are the replacement parts for the Queens Gambit?

Seriously. Not the biggest SW RPG fan but really, 65 of those battle droids for $3? 21 palace guards for $2? 12 of the destroyer droids for $1.50? Those sould pretty cheap. I'm sure the tanks, etc. are out of scale and really, who wants Gungans?

 

[Kesh]

Re: A plea and recommendation to Hasbro

True story: I've got some buddies here at work who are into board games. At lunch, we play Settlers of Cattan or a turn of Samurai Swords. So, when I got Chainmail and a few faction boxed sets, I talked it up and they were all eager to play. But we never played, because it took me 3 months to assemble and paint all the figs and by that time everyone had lost interest (in fact, I still have to paint Naresh. Sigh.)

Lesson: Chainmail 2 should be playable out of the box. No assembly required, no trips to specialty hobby paint stores required, no long hours spent learning how to paint required, no getting uptight when other players pick up your pieces and might mess up your paint job required.

Actually, I played several games with the Starter Box the week after it came out. I just glued together the few figs that required it and we played with bare-metal figures. I don't even think they were actually mounted on their base yet. Rune? Still readin the thread?

I can agree, it helps if the game is playable out of the box. But in many cases you can have the figures in a useable state within a weekend. Now, if you are painting, that can throw a wrench into things... I know how long it can take to do a good job before sealing.

So, I would prefer pewter figures, especially if they required little to no assembly. Plastic is acceptable, as long as they're detailed and I can repaint them.

But no clicky-bases and it cannot be collectible. Just imagine Joe Gamer who wants the brand-new Chainmail 2 'Half-Orc Monk' figure, because it's perfect for his D&D game! Now imagine that he has to buy a dozen different boxes just to find said figure, or wait on a store to open a few boxes and sell individual figures (at marked up prices for 'rares').

 

[mmadsen]

Re: A plea and recommendation to Hasbro

Actually, I played several games with the Starter Box the week after it came out. I just glued together the few figs that required it and we played with bare-metal figures. I don't even think they were actually mounted on their base yet.

How many figures even come with the Chainmail starter set?

I can agree, it helps if the game is playable out of the box.

Ideally the figures would come in a usable state. For instance, the cheap plastic miniatures that come with Weapons & Warriors come in two colors (blue and red, so you don't have to paint them to play out two sides), not on a sprue (so you don't have to carefully clip them out and mount them on bases), in large quantities (10 to a side?).

But no clicky-bases and it cannot be collectible.

I do not understand the allure of collectible cards, figures, etc.

 

[CRG]

How many figures even come with the Chainmail starter set?

Eight. I like the detail but....

When you're casting miniatures you have a few options. One of those (favored by Reaper) is to do a single cast. This means that all of your miniatures are essentially "flat" in concept. Arms swung wide apart - sword in one, shield in the other. When you look at it, you can really see where the two pieces of the mold come together. The problem with this option is that the miniatures look sometimes a little too "posed".

Another option is to cast the parts separately and then glue them together. This is the option preferred by the Chainmail minis and many of the Warhammer minis. This includes the base paladin miniature having a glue joint at her wrist to keep the hand/sword attached to the arm. In general, I don't favor these. The first reason is that I have more miniatures than most of the rest of my gaming group so mine get used alot by others who, naturally, don't know the details of how each fig is glued when they pick it up. Once that hand falls off a few times, you'll never get i back on...

Maybe I should start fashioning hooks for all of the once-handed miniatures? Hmm...THAT would be cool.

I do not understand the allure of collectible cards, figures, etc.

Well, I do, but not in the same manner that you may think.

First, I like miniatures, and am prone to buy alot.
Second, I dislike anything that has a "must collect" component and tend to avoid these things like the plague. This is for two reasons - (a) I'm not typically found to throw myself in with a fad and (b) I have enough obsessive-collective traits to find myself a new hole in which to throw cash.
Third, I envy anyone that can make one of these "must collect" items and sell it, as they can potentially make a wad of cash.

My wife has played Magic: The Gathering. I have not. Never have.

Part of this is going out of the country when Magic first exploded onto the scene. When I left, my group played ALOT of Warhammer: Epic (Space Marine, Titan Legions, etc.) and enjoyed it. I have a large collection of little tanks that should never exist in real life - with large rivets and improbably big guns, etc. I love them. Magic killed all desire in my group to continue to play anything more complex and involving as many moving parts as a big miniatures game.

So sad. The again, I haven't spent any money on M:TG and have even more miniatures - this is a serious 'yay' for me, as with the wife, kid and other life-crap, my budget has been fairly constricted for a few years.

Oddly, a friend of mine had some hand-me-down videos and books from her 8 year old that she was bequeathing to my 3 year old and mailed us a box. Inside the box were 2 M:TG decks. I called her and asked her if she wanted them back becuase they weren't her kids. She said no, since she and her husband never have time to play any more...we should just keep them. She knows my wife has played before and just assumed I did. So now, I have two magic decks. Ho hum. If only I rode my bike I could use them to make the wheels all clickety-clackety like when I was a kid. Maybe when my 3 year old gets older and we start family-biking it we can all be clickety-clackety.

Enough of magic. The obsessive Warhammer:

"If you want to include the High Inquistor of Doom in your army you must have the actual $39.95 miniature that represents it painted appropriately"

concept is one of the things I dislike about their games as well, followed by a close second with the strategy of:

"Buy our newest army splat book! Everything in here is better than anything else we've ever released!"

These things are what I hoped chainmail would avoid and really, it did in many ways. Then again, I'm not sure how I can effectively kit-bash my own Slaughter-Pit Zombie-Gnoll, but I view that as a challenge, rather than an insult to my intelligence, maturity and wallet.

 

[Rune]

Re: Re: A plea and recommendation to Hasbro

Actually, I played several games with the Starter Box the week after it came out. I just glued together the few figs that required it and we played with bare-metal figures. I don't even think they were actually mounted on their base yet. Rune? Still readin the thread?

Yep. The game went smoothly. I can't recall how many pieces you had painted (none of them were finished, if I recall) and one of the gnolls wasn't fully assembled, but the game was great anyway.

I can agree, it helps if the game is playable out of the box. But in many cases you can have the figures in a useable state within a weekend. Now, if you are painting, that can throw a wrench into things... I know how long it can take to do a good job before sealing.

It probably would have been a good idea to have the minis in the starter box be less complicated, but I don't think that that would be necessarily good for all of the rest of the minis.

But no clicky-bases and it cannot be collectible. Just imagine Joe Gamer who wants the brand-new Chainmail 2 'Half-Orc Monk' figure, because it's perfect for his D&D game! Now imagine that he has to buy a dozen different boxes just to find said figure, or wait on a store to open a few boxes and sell individual figures (at marked up prices for 'rares').

I agree with both of the statements above. The character cards were much more convenient than clicky-bases are and they should all be equally available.

Collectible minis games have their place, but that place is already taken.