Zaruthustran
The tingling means it’s working!
Better? Worse? I don't think those terms apply, really. I was just curious.
In Place of Chainmail?
- Thread starter mmadsen
- Start date
I only bring it up because some posters here were deathly afraid that I might be performing some oh-so-scary market research awhile back. I still don't know why. Anyway, imagine how terrible that would be, if the people putting out games found out what we all like and produced products to our tastes!
With the recent announcement (already mentioned in another thread) that Chainmail's coming back, I thought I'd resurrect this old thread.
Previously, we established that we want lots of cheap, ready-to-use plastic figures in "Chainmail II" -- and they certainly seem easy enough to crank out -- and that we'd like complex, metal, challenging-to-assemble-and-paint figures as add-ons for the serious hobbiest. Seems simple enough, no?
Previously, we established that we want lots of cheap, ready-to-use plastic figures in "Chainmail II" -- and they certainly seem easy enough to crank out -- and that we'd like complex, metal, challenging-to-assemble-and-paint figures as add-ons for the serious hobbiest. Seems simple enough, no?
From the recent announcement:
Miniature-Game stats: Good. (Especially if they're not too different.)
Skirmish-Level Rules: Good.
Large-Scale Rules: Really Good.
Plastic Miniatures: Good, at least in some ways (e.g. price).
Painted Miniatures: Good? Not to my taste, but marketable.
Randomly Packed: Who likes this?
D&D stats: Good.
Miniature-Game stats: Good. (Especially if they're not too different.)
Skirmish-Level Rules: Good.
Large-Scale Rules: Really Good.
Plastic Miniatures: Good, at least in some ways (e.g. price).
Painted Miniatures: Good? Not to my taste, but marketable.
Randomly Packed: Who likes this?
Olgar Shiverstone
Legend
If they'd just add non-collectible, unpainted pewter versions of the plastic minis to the mix, I'd be happy. Then I could go buy & paint the specific ones I want for my D&D game, and the collectible fanatics can go collect their plastic minis, and we can both play with the same combat rules.
MadScientist
First Post
Ugh!
I played the first chainmail. I liked the game. I really liked having miniatures that matched the DnD races and monsters so well. (Of course they needed more than one stinking gnome! I think there was only one halfling as well.) I bought ALOT of the Chainmail miniatures.
This game, I will not even look at... I simply want to be able to buy the miniatures I need for my game. A nice tabletop wargame is just a nice bonus. It did get be to buy mini's that I wouldn't have otherwise, though. I stopped playing MtG like eight years ago. It has soured me on the whole randomly packed collectable game to this day.
To me WoTC is really missing a unique opportunity to get Role Players and War Gamers buying the same miniatures line. This whole collectable plastic miniatures game is probably a fad, and WizKids already has a lock on the market. I just don't imagine a DnD version of the same thing doing all that well. Especially in the long run..... but maybe thats just me.
I played the first chainmail. I liked the game. I really liked having miniatures that matched the DnD races and monsters so well. (Of course they needed more than one stinking gnome! I think there was only one halfling as well.) I bought ALOT of the Chainmail miniatures.This game, I will not even look at... I simply want to be able to buy the miniatures I need for my game. A nice tabletop wargame is just a nice bonus. It did get be to buy mini's that I wouldn't have otherwise, though. I stopped playing MtG like eight years ago. It has soured me on the whole randomly packed collectable game to this day.
To me WoTC is really missing a unique opportunity to get Role Players and War Gamers buying the same miniatures line. This whole collectable plastic miniatures game is probably a fad, and WizKids already has a lock on the market. I just don't imagine a DnD version of the same thing doing all that well. Especially in the long run..... but maybe thats just me.
Kevin O'Reilly
First Post
mmadsen, thanks for ressurecting this.
I say again what I said on the other thread: WoTC needs to think the collectable element through. In MK, the base, not the mini is the collectable (hence the failure of the metals line).
I can't see how WoTC can make the mini a collectable, shot of a click base. If they do something like this then this is not a mass combat game, but another skirmish game
I say again what I said on the other thread: WoTC needs to think the collectable element through. In MK, the base, not the mini is the collectable (hence the failure of the metals line).
I can't see how WoTC can make the mini a collectable, shot of a click base. If they do something like this then this is not a mass combat game, but another skirmish game
If Trolls and Giants are rare, then the game is collectable.
Think about it: if goblins, kobolds, orcs, human spearmen, etc. are common, ogres are uncommon, and giants are rare, then there is a collectable aspect.
I think (someone tell me if I'm wrong) that plastic miniatures are more expensive than metal miniatures EXCEPT when cast in very large numbers.
Having the game being random allows you to print in those large numbers - especially for figures that otherwise people wouldn't seek out.
Cheers!
Think about it: if goblins, kobolds, orcs, human spearmen, etc. are common, ogres are uncommon, and giants are rare, then there is a collectable aspect.
I think (someone tell me if I'm wrong) that plastic miniatures are more expensive than metal miniatures EXCEPT when cast in very large numbers.
Having the game being random allows you to print in those large numbers - especially for figures that otherwise people wouldn't seek out.
Cheers!
Zaruthustran
The tingling means it’s working!
Cross-post (long)
This is good news for four reasons:
1. SAVES TIME
Painting figs takes time, money, skill, and effort. Those requirements are just part of the fun for "Miniature Painter" hobbyists, but are huge obstacles to "D&D Player" hobbyists* who simply want a good-looking representation of their character.
Pre-painted plastic figs are the answer.
"Miniature Painter" hobbyists who love metal figs are completely unaffected by the new Chainmail. They can still play their painting game, having fun with Reaper figs and whatnot.
"D&D Player" hobbyists are in for a real treat. They'll have instant access to hundreds of well-sculpted, pre-painted figs. Buy a box, and you can have a good-looking fig in your hands in about 6 seconds. Compare to *at least* 6 hours for a good-looking metal fig that you have to clean, wash, prime, paint, and seal.
2. SAVES MONEY
Metals are expensive, especially when you consider the cost of paint, materials, and time. Prepainted plastics are cheap.
The "randomly packed" element is cause for concern, but we need details. Does "randomly packed" mean that you get a blank box with 8 totally random figs? Probably not. It probably mean you can buy a box of "Dwarves", and you get a random assortment of dwarves. Or if CH2 is like Mage Knight (3 power levels for each model pose), you may be able to buy a pack with specific figures poses--it's the power levels of those figures that would be randomized.
Either way, my FLGS sells "common" figs for $0.25. That's ONE QUARTER. Yep, CH2 = cheap figs for anyone who wants them.
3. MAKES D&D BETTER
"Each figure will come with D&D and miniature game stats on their card." Buy a bunch of chainmail figs. Place them into bowls, sorted by Challenge Rating or Race or whatever. When you roll a random encounter, grab handfuls as needed. You can quickly reference the stat cards, which will have full D&D (revised) stats. No fuss, no flipping to the "Standard NPC" section of the DMG, no flipping through your ridiculously huge stack of Monster Manual 1/2/Fiend Folio/Creature Collection/whatever books. It's all on handy cards.
"The rulebook will have both Skirmish level and large scale battle rules" Want to run Helm's Deep in your D&D game? Use Chainmail for the mass combat, dropping into D&D rules for encounters with the leaders or for the crux of the battle.
"Randomly packed pre-painted miniatures" Love it or hate it, the effect of this will be access to a large assortment of figs. Including unusual figs. You'll probably have access to whatever it is you want in your game.
Best of all, since this game is designed by WotC, we'll probably see figs that you commonly see in D&D. Like: a ranger dual-wielding two short swords. Spiked Chains. Spiked shields. Spiked Armor. Duelists. Dwarf wizards in full plate using wands or scrolls. Polearms. Half-orc monks. Adventurers (figs with big back packs and many weapons, potions, and scrolls). Drow. Clerics brandishing D&D-accurate Holy Symbols. Druids. Familiars. Templatized creatures (including planetouched).
4. POSSIBILITIES
If this succeeds, think how cool it would be. We could see boxes of Ducal Guard, the army in Greyhawk's Duchy of Urnst. We could see boxes of Red Wizards. We could re-create the Greyhawk Wars, or the War of the Lance, or creatures and battles from the other published worlds.
We could see a Star Wars version of the game. I guess you'd call that game Stormtrooper Armor, or whatever. And there may be licensing issues. But whatever, we may expansions from WotC's other properties. Miniatures-based Quidditch game, anyone?
The clicky bases of Mage Knight are neato, and Warhammer is fun to paint, but man, I can't wait to play a quick, cheap, fun game with pre-painted figs that uses D&D creatures and D&D-flavored rules.
-z, optimist
* I realize some D&D Player hobbyists are also Miniature Painter hobbyists. But not most.
This is good news for four reasons:
1. SAVES TIME
Painting figs takes time, money, skill, and effort. Those requirements are just part of the fun for "Miniature Painter" hobbyists, but are huge obstacles to "D&D Player" hobbyists* who simply want a good-looking representation of their character.
Pre-painted plastic figs are the answer.
"Miniature Painter" hobbyists who love metal figs are completely unaffected by the new Chainmail. They can still play their painting game, having fun with Reaper figs and whatnot.
"D&D Player" hobbyists are in for a real treat. They'll have instant access to hundreds of well-sculpted, pre-painted figs. Buy a box, and you can have a good-looking fig in your hands in about 6 seconds. Compare to *at least* 6 hours for a good-looking metal fig that you have to clean, wash, prime, paint, and seal.
2. SAVES MONEY
Metals are expensive, especially when you consider the cost of paint, materials, and time. Prepainted plastics are cheap.
The "randomly packed" element is cause for concern, but we need details. Does "randomly packed" mean that you get a blank box with 8 totally random figs? Probably not. It probably mean you can buy a box of "Dwarves", and you get a random assortment of dwarves. Or if CH2 is like Mage Knight (3 power levels for each model pose), you may be able to buy a pack with specific figures poses--it's the power levels of those figures that would be randomized.
Either way, my FLGS sells "common" figs for $0.25. That's ONE QUARTER. Yep, CH2 = cheap figs for anyone who wants them.
3. MAKES D&D BETTER
"Each figure will come with D&D and miniature game stats on their card." Buy a bunch of chainmail figs. Place them into bowls, sorted by Challenge Rating or Race or whatever. When you roll a random encounter, grab handfuls as needed. You can quickly reference the stat cards, which will have full D&D (revised) stats. No fuss, no flipping to the "Standard NPC" section of the DMG, no flipping through your ridiculously huge stack of Monster Manual 1/2/Fiend Folio/Creature Collection/whatever books. It's all on handy cards.
"The rulebook will have both Skirmish level and large scale battle rules" Want to run Helm's Deep in your D&D game? Use Chainmail for the mass combat, dropping into D&D rules for encounters with the leaders or for the crux of the battle.
"Randomly packed pre-painted miniatures" Love it or hate it, the effect of this will be access to a large assortment of figs. Including unusual figs. You'll probably have access to whatever it is you want in your game.
Best of all, since this game is designed by WotC, we'll probably see figs that you commonly see in D&D. Like: a ranger dual-wielding two short swords. Spiked Chains. Spiked shields. Spiked Armor. Duelists. Dwarf wizards in full plate using wands or scrolls. Polearms. Half-orc monks. Adventurers (figs with big back packs and many weapons, potions, and scrolls). Drow. Clerics brandishing D&D-accurate Holy Symbols. Druids. Familiars. Templatized creatures (including planetouched).
4. POSSIBILITIES
If this succeeds, think how cool it would be. We could see boxes of Ducal Guard, the army in Greyhawk's Duchy of Urnst. We could see boxes of Red Wizards. We could re-create the Greyhawk Wars, or the War of the Lance, or creatures and battles from the other published worlds.
We could see a Star Wars version of the game. I guess you'd call that game Stormtrooper Armor, or whatever. And there may be licensing issues. But whatever, we may expansions from WotC's other properties. Miniatures-based Quidditch game, anyone?
The clicky bases of Mage Knight are neato, and Warhammer is fun to paint, but man, I can't wait to play a quick, cheap, fun game with pre-painted figs that uses D&D creatures and D&D-flavored rules.
-z, optimist
* I realize some D&D Player hobbyists are also Miniature Painter hobbyists. But not most.
Kevin O'Reilly
First Post
MerricB said:
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