In Praise of the Fluff-Light Monster Manual (Forked: Ecology of the Dragonborn up)

[BryonD]

Yep. Love at first sight for me.

I have no desire to replace anything fluffwise (I'm no worldbuilder), so the info provided is more than sufficient to play every monster I've seen

Speaking as a world builder, I agree completely. I'll build my own fluff thank you very much. Some nice idea generating tidbits are perfectly fine, but I'd prefer they err on the side of less.

If the crunch didn't suck, this would be exactly the kind of book I wanted.

 

[Ambush Bug]

I thought the 4E MM did an okay job with fluff - the Lore entries are pretty neat. But "okay" isn't "good enough." I want more flavor and less numbers in a monster book. I can attach any set of numbers I want to any monster description I like when I'm GMing; I don't need a whole book of that. What I'm after is a bunch of story hooks - what does this creature do, why does it do it, where does it like to be, why will my PCs encounter it? Numbers are easy to improvise and fudge, assuming you don't roll dice in front of the players. Plots need to be consistent (at least with the players I know), and I wanted the MM to give me more background info. To me, that's what a monster book is for.

 

[Steely Dan]

What I'm after is a bunch of story hooks - what does this creature do, why does it do it, where does it like to be, why will my PCs encounter it? Numbers are easy to improvise and fudge

I feel the exact opposite.

Which of course is fine, as we can see from this thread people have vastly different desires from a MM.

 

[Asmor]

what does this creature do, why does it do it, where does it like to be, why will my PCs encounter it?

Using my example from before (the Shadowsworn...)

What does it do? Hunts people who cheat death.

Why? To serve the Raven Queen

Where does it like to be? Attracted to battlefields, lairs in ruins

Why will your PCs encounter it? See "What does it do?" and figure out why the PCs would run into them (hint: PCs like to be resurrected).

It's almost like the monster manual fluff was written just for you...

 

[Ambush Bug]

Using my example from before (the Shadowsworn...)

What does it do? Hunts people who cheat death.

Why? To serve the Raven Queen

Where does it like to be? Attracted to battlefields, lairs in ruins

Why will your PCs encounter it? See "What does it do?" and figure out why the PCs would run into them (hint: PCs like to be resurrected).

It's almost like the monster manual fluff was written just for you...

Yep. But too much of the book is filled with various monster builds and their fiddly little powers. Give me more flavor text and a master list of cool abilities (maybe with a couple charts of level-based modifiers), and I'd be happy.

 

[Psion]

Speaking as a world builder, I agree completely. I'll build my own fluff thank you very much. Some nice idea generating tidbits are perfectly fine, but I'd prefer they err on the side of less.

Speaking as a worldbuilder, I'd prefer they err on the side of "medium".

My world is the fertile soil. (Good) fluff is the idea seed. It suggests to me how this creature relates to the world, what it would do, or if it even belongs. (Not belonging is a perfectly valid conclusion.)

Frankly, that little bit is more important to me than the mechanics.

 

[Desdichado]

It's sufficient, especially for someone like me who's been playing for at least twenty-five years off and on and have been reading fantasy for just as long.

I can't find it in my heart to be excited by it, though. I kinda like fluff and find it interesting in its own right.

I think the Monsternomicon books by Privateer Press strike the perfect balance between fluff and crunch and number of entries. I greatly prefer reading them to reading the MM. The MM is like stereo hookup instructions compared to Monsternomicon.

 

[Steely Dan]

a master list of cool abilities (maybe with a couple charts of level-based modifiers)

That's not a bad idea.

 

[Ambush Bug]

That's not a bad idea.

Thanks. I'm baffled that they didn't do this somewhere. 4 pages in the back of the MM or the DMG would have been enough space for a basic matrix listing the "normal" statistics for critters by type and level, plus a long list of fun abilities that can scale by level. The system's mechanically tight enough to support this - I half-suspect they have this stuff in the design offices. And I'd like to have access to it.

 

[Jhaelen]

Thanks. I'm baffled that they didn't do this somewhere. 4 pages in the back of the MM or the DMG would have been enough space for a basic matrix listing the "normal" statistics for critters by type and level, plus a long list of fun abilities that can scale by level. The system's mechanically tight enough to support this - I half-suspect they have this stuff in the design offices. And I'd like to have access to it.

But isn't that exactly what you get from the DMG and PHB?
The DMG has a table with appropriate stats per role per level and templates, including npc templates. The PHB lists hundreds of powers for every level. The only thing you don't get is monster-only abilities apart from those already assigned to specific monsters. I found it pretty easy to mix and match stuff to create customized monsters.