D&D 4E In terms of theme, tone, and spirit, I hope 4e . . .

BTW, what was Lidda doing here? Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar indeed......
Maybe the caption should be, "Lidda finds an exploding cuttlefish which makes her look like Halle Berry."

I think a good deal of this thread can be summed up by saying that the Paizo Dungeon magazine iconics are much more appealing than the WOTC iconics because they're always shown in a solid D&D context, doing stuff, not just solo, posing for a portrait, oriented towards the camera. I think the height of irksome for me in this respect is the PHB II Gimble the Herald, where he's apparently yelling right at the reader. It breaks the 4th wall for me.

If the Paizo Dungeon iconics found an exploding cuttlefish, there would be more than one of them in the picture, for instance. And they'd be in peril, or overcoming some challenge, or falling off of something. And there'd be a gorgeous or evocative background, to set the scene.
 
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Asmor said:
He wasn't making a personal attack... No names were mentioned, and you're hardly the only grognard in here decrying the evils of 3e's art. No need to be so defensive.
:confused:

You assign me a label and a position and tell me not to be defensive?

Could we please discuss the topic and not the people?
 

Mouseferatu said:
You know, the most amusing thing about the current Emirikol v. Mialee conflict is that, in the current edition, there at least exists a ray spell that causes fire damage. (Scorching ray.) I don't think there was one in 1E, at least not at the time of the printing of the DMG.
Yeah, I wondered about that as a kid.

"He sure seems to be getting a whole lot out of ray of enfeeblement!"

That being said, while I can find art I like in both editions, I am a fan of the Emirikol picture--and I don't much care for most portrayals of Mialee, partly because her outfit is so stupid. (Note that I didn't say "historically inaccurate." While I'd like to see more historically semi-accurate stuff, just as an option, there's lots of inaccurate artwork that I love. But Mialee's outfit is downright stupid. I figure she's gained most of her XP by killing the scores of people who see her coming and laugh at her. ;))
Well, she certainly has the pockets for all the spell components she might need, in that case. :p
 

Asmor said:
Realism given the fantasy elements. A fighter in D&D and a soldier in medieval Europe fight very different battles against very different foes with very different weapons on very different battle grounds. To assume that the same armor would be not just effective, but ideal, would seem to me quite naive.

Naive? I don't think so. Consider:

In the real world, different armors were better for different purposes. Plate, for instance, rendered the sword almost obsolete, but it was (relatively) easily penetrated by a good warhammer or crushed by a flanged mace. Chain might stop a slash, but could be punched through with a thin and/or powerful arrowhead.

So it's true that different armor works for different purposes. I'll grant you that. But...

The average warrior in a D&D setting is, for the most part, facing the same basic sort of attacks as a warrior in the real world. Swords, axes, maces, and bows work the same in both contexts. The bite of a dire wolf includes both puncturing and crushing, but each attack individually is not substantially different from a piercing or bludgeoning weapon.

A slash is still a slash. A stab is still a stab. A wallop is still a wallop. This is true whether it comes from a weapon wielded by a human, a weapon wielded by an orc, or the natural attack of a monster.

Now, of course there are exceptions. Some monsters in D&D have wonky attacks. Some monsters are big or strong enough that even if they're "just" stabbing you, it's not going to be like a "normal" stab.

But then, I'd argue that--using metals like steel and iron and bronze--it's almost impossible to build an effective defense against that sort of attack. Certainly the shape and style of one's armor is going to have little impact.

So, should armor in D&D look just like historical armor? Nope. There are cultural and aesthetic differences, certainly. And people in D&D do have to deal with abnormal possibilities, such as being grappled by a worm the size of a city bus.

But at a level of baseline practicality, the armor in D&D has to deal with the same sorts of abuse--cutting, stabbing, and crushing--that historical armor did. So while D&D armor should not necessarily equal historical armor, it also should not deviate too dramatically, either. And thus, while it's perfectly acceptable to have funky, blatantly-fantastic armor (as long as it doesn't reach the point of being woefully ineffective), historically-accurate armor should also sometimes be portrayed, because it's not rendered out of place by virtue of this being a fantasy setting.
 

rounser said:
Maybe the caption should be, "Lidda finds an exploding cuttlefish which makes her look like Halle Berry."

I think a good deal of this thread can be summed up by saying that the Paizo Dungeon magazine iconics are much more appealing than the WOTC iconics because they're always shown in a solid D&D context, doing stuff, not just solo, posing for a portrait.

If the Paizo Dungeon iconics found an exploding cuttlefish, there would be more than one of them in the picture, for instance. And they'd be in peril, or overcoming some challenge, or falling off of something. And there'd be a gorgeous or evocative background, to set the scene.

The more static D&D Iconics shown in the PHB, as well as the example pics shown in prestige class entries certainly aren't as dynamic. I think the reason for this is that they are "examples", as in "here's an example of a character with this class or option".

I figure that the Paizo Iconics are shown that way because they are in the midst of the adventure in question. That's really great, and I like the artwork I've seen of them. Again. though, I feel they are examples, but in this case, it is "here's an example of a particular set of adventurers in the midst of this adventure".

Same thing, different implementation.

---
I'm glad that recent Wotc books have diversified the types of artwork in their manuals and tomes, and not relying too much on only a few artists or styles. Perhaps even more variety should be in order, and then more people will be satisfied.

Then again, people would probably complain about that, too. :p :lol:
 


Sound of Azure said:
I'm glad that recent Wotc books have diversified the types of artwork in their manuals and tomes, and not relying too much on only a few artists or styles. Perhaps even more variety should be in order, and then more people will be satisfied.
I really liked how Tome of Magic had a different style of art for each section. I'd love to see more books that carried a single tone and style throughout.

Heroes of Horror art should look different than, say, Draconomicon (although you could certainly do a horror adventure with a dragon in it), but they're really not that different in style, just in subject.
 

rounser said:
Maybe the caption should be, "Lidda finds an exploding cuttlefish which makes her look like Halle Berry."
I'd go with Wands Make Lidda HOT!

... but then I like books which sell. :cool:

Cheers, -- N
 

D00d, What?!?
I just realised (to my concern) that unintended things could be read into that comment of mine. To be clear, I just mean the shape of her face and set of her mouth there, in shock, looks a lot like Halle Berry IMO. Maybe I'm thinking of that Bond movie or the oscars night.
 
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rounser said:
I just realised (to my concern) that unintended things could be read into that comment of mine. To be clear, I just mean the shape of her face and set of her mouth there, in shock, looks a lot like Halle Berry IMO. Maybe I'm thinking of that Bond movie or the oscars night.

I always thought Lidda had an uncanny resemblance to Jennifer Garner, myself.

Whizbang Dustyboots said:
I really liked how Tome of Magic had a different style of art for each section. I'd love to see more books that carried a single tone and style throughout.
I agree, that would be heaps cool!
 

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