D&D 4E In terms of theme, tone, and spirit, I hope 4e . . .

[HeinorNY]

Can you picture 2e guy *ever* crawling through a filthy dungeon, ankle deep in Kobold guts?

LOL.
Exactly. Most of the images from the old books don't portray "real" adventurers. Those charcters not even had backpacks, how can you be an adventure without a backpack?
Some people claim that in today's art characters look too bad @sses, but hey, you gotta be a little of that to enter in a dungeons full of traps, monsters and worse. I can't believe those dwaves with round bellies and colorful pointy hats could be real adventures, maybe in some kids fairy tales, but not in D&D. I think the new art tries to show what more realistic D&D characters should look like.
D&D art evolved just like Movies evolved in the visual aspect.
Take a look at older movies like Ben-hur, Spartacus and newer ones like Gladiator and Troy.

Hey look! Lots of buckles!

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

You do realize that Emirkol is the dude shooting laser beams from his fingers, right?

Total Emirkol laser beams = 1
Mialee the Pantsless = Zillions, of multiple different colors

And for total kewlness, Emirkol is decidedly old school -- there are people on this thread actually dissing the art -- whereas, well, the other one's not wearing pants. Or a bra.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Some people claim that in today's art characters look too bad @sses, but hey, you gotta be a little of that to enter in a dungeons full of traps, monsters and worse. I can't believe those dwaves with round bellies and colorful pointy hats could be real adventures, maybe in some kids fairy tales, but not in D&D.

Says who? There are plenty of soliders and SWAT team members who look a whole lot more like Trampier's dwarves than they do the Dungeons & Dragonball over-the-top characters being championed by some on this thread.

One of the toughest cops I know -- ex-LAPD, and the guy who very memorably grabbed a TV camerman's lens and slammed the camera to the ground, a scene that's been recycled in the movies for decades since -- has a big dwarf mustache and a very impressive belly. And he could still kick the crap out of folks half his age.

I think the new art tries to show what more realistic D&D characters should look like.

If the gear was realistic, it would have more precedents in history. A lot of the current D&D gear is unwearable or ridiculous.

And if Hennet's gear is realistic, it's realistic fetish gear at best. It's not practical for any other purposes.

 

[GreatLemur]

Wrong. Here's my description of anime:
- Everything is Giant In-Your-Face: giant leaps, giant muscles, giant poses, giant swords
- Flash over substance: static, contrived images that focus on the "coolosity" of the character and little else
- Punked out: spikey blue hair, spikey green hair, spikey hair hair, tattoos, piercings, fetish gear/bondage outfits
- Character extremes: everybody either looks like a child, an emaciated speed addict or a steroid monstrosity
- Wuxia action: combat is evidently all about jumping through the air like a Street Fighter video game

I've got to concur with Wolfspider, here: All of this sounds as much like Western comics and cartoons as Japanese ones. And where the heck have you seen spikey blue hair in D&D?

That's fair. When I slam something as "anime" I'm thinking of DBZ, etc. My impression (which resident experts may wish to correct) is that things of that nature are the "norm" in anime.

But . . . but what in DBZ looks anything like any piece of Dungeons & Dragons art? I guess they've got bulging muscles in common, but that's about it. Goku is almost the farthest thing from "dungeonpunk" that I can imagine.

spiked / pierced / tattooed / BDSM

Those words always come up when people discuss the dungeonpunk art ethic, but, aside from the spikes, I don't really see those elements in a lot of 3.x art. I mean, there's Hennet again, and he's got tattoos and a bunch of leather straps, but that's about the only example I can think of.

And what's more, those things are even rarer in anime. I mean, it's actually a struggle to come up with any examples. They certainly aren't prevalent elements.

I hope I don't sound antagonistic; I just ain't seeing it. I see more of the things you're calling "punk" walking down the street than I do in D&D or anime. (Except for the spikes--which admittedly all the former--and the spiky hair--which is certainly common in the latter.)

I'm afraid I can't agree at all with you thinking this looks like what is commonly referred to as anime. His ears don't seem very big to me at all. In fact, they're smaller than Spock's! If you want to see big elf ears, look at the warcraft elves (or even Maielee). His proportions don't seem that off to me--they are a bit exaggerated, but nothing too serious at all. I've seen classic Conan artwork that was more ill-proportioned. Upturning shoulderplates? Blame the Dragon Highlords of Dragonlance fame for that...or, in fact, most of Elmore's art. The sword doesn't seem big to me at all. It seems like a normal scimitar, not a katana...the blade is gentle curved, and certainly doesn't have a wedge-point like a katana. The shape of the hilt screams scimitar to me.

Sorry. I'm not seeing it at all.

Not very anime looking, but he sure is ripping off Alice Cooper.

Actually, a case could be made that the whole blond, detached, slightly effeminate badass thing he's got going on is a very anime trope. Could also be said that it's just a very elf trope, though.

And for total kewlness, Emirkol is decidedly old school -- there are people on this thread actually dissing the art -- whereas, well, the other one's not wearing pants. Or a bra.

Does Mialee look like she lneeds a bra? Seriously, though, while her outfit is the dumbest thing this side of Hennet, I've always appreciated the fact that the artists made Charisma her dump stat. An astonishing change for elf chicks in fantasy art.

 

[Numion]

If the gear was realistic, it would have more precedents in history. A lot of the current D&D gear is unwearable or ridiculous.

Check my Armor spikes thread. Many people agree that spikes would be useful in D&D world. SWAT uses equipment that matches their work environment - smashing cameras and shooting crackheads. D&D equipment should reflect working in dungeons.

In any case the 1E art is pretty juvenile to me. It's only good that the art has matured with most of the audience.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Does Mialee look like she lneeds a bra? Seriously, though, while her outfit is the dumbest thing this side of Hennet, I've always appreciated the fact that the artists made Charisma her dump stat. An astonishing change for elf chicks in fantasy art.

Oh, I do agree that it's great that she doesn't look like she hangs out with Elrond. That IS a nice break.

But the poor girl can't even sit down wearing what she does. (One shudders to think of all the awful things that could happen to someone sitting on a typical dungeon floor without pants. )

There are relatively realistic iconics.

* Gimble, for all the bard-favored-race angst he evokes, looks like he could actually walk down a typical fantasy street or even into a dungeon.
* Lidda's outfit, while it should probably have baggier knees and elbows than it's typically depicted as having, dresses pretty reasonably.
* Redgar, minus the shoulder spikes that prevent him from raising his arm high enough to climb a ladder or attack a flying enemy, is pretty reasonable.
* Alhambra (or whatever her name is) is almost reasonably armored, except the tops of her thighs should have their own armor plates or something, even if she was a lightly armored mounted warrior.
* The druid, as has been said, seems sort of reasonable and, again, big points for not looking like a JRRT elf.

But many of the others have one or more show-stopping bad ideas.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Check my Armor spikes thread.

Already posted there, especially to your rather insulting characterization of people who disagree with armor spikes.

And the consensus of a message board hardly makes something correct.

SWAT uses equipment that matches their work environment - smashing cameras and shooting crackheads. D&D equipment should reflect working in dungeons.

Dungeons that feature ladders and flying enemies would require characters to be able to lift their arms over their head without their spikes being driven into the sides of their heads or necks. Many of the illustrations in the core books feature armor that cannot be used in this way.

In any case the 1E art is pretty juvenile to me. It's only good that the art has matured with most of the audience.

Could you cut out the snide attacks on people you disagree with? It's seriously not cool.

 

[Numion]

Dungeons that feature ladders and flying enemies would require characters to be able to lift their arms over their head without their spikes being driven into the sides of their heads or necks. Many of the illustrations in the core books feature armor that cannot be used in this way.

Yup, and I asked what picture do you mean?

Could you cut out the snide attacks on people you disagree with? It's seriously not cool.

Considering the anime/dungeonpunk/juvenile mantra your side's been spewing, I think I'm on the safe side here.

 

[Sound of Azure]

Considering the anime/dungeonpunk/juvenile mantra your side's been spewing, I think I'm on the safe side here.

Even if its true that the "other side" is acting poorly, it would reflect better on "your side" to act more maturely than act in the same fashion, don't you think?

 

[Digital Archon]

The first (and last) time I saw D&D art that made me go "Whoa, now that's cool. I want to play that." was Brom's Dark Sun work. And there was some funny art I guess maybe from the basic game? I think the same guy some art for Paranoia? Some of that was just hilarious.

Jim (or James, he's been credited as both) Holloway.

He was a fairly prolific artist in the mid to late 80s for D&D, among other games. He is quite talented, able to do humor as well as serious, and he can wield a mean paintbrush, as well.

He's playing air guitar because he's a fun guy......


BTW, what was Lidda doing here? Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar indeed......

I always thought it was a gigantic joint myself.

I like peices of "both sides", and dislike pieces of both sides as well. Yes, i'm sitting on the fence, but i'm probably happier here.