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5E In your Years of Gaming, How many Psionic Characters did you See played

When I play/run D&D in any edition, I see psionic characters

  • All the time. At least one per group.

    Votes: 3 1.2%
  • Pretty frequently. It wasn't rare in our games.

    Votes: 42 17.3%
  • Not much and certainly less common than PHB classes.

    Votes: 62 25.5%
  • Almost never.

    Votes: 91 37.4%
  • Nope. Didn't use psionics at all in my D&D.

    Votes: 39 16.0%
  • Lemony curry goodness.

    Votes: 6 2.5%

  • Total voters
    243

Hussar

Legend
That's a good question. Dark Sun had a release in 4e, so it probably did shoot a bit of adrenaline in the memory of gamers who went over to 5e. What percentage of 5e gamers remembered Greyhawk? And yet there is a Ghosts of Saltmarsh book. Or how about those 5e gamers you mention who remembered Ravenloft? It doesn't require psionics, but the point is that memory for a setting doesn't necessarily mean that the publishers have forgotten it and don't desire publishing for the setting.
Thing is, there is about a page of Greyhawk in Ghosts of Saltmarsh. It's pretty much setting neutral other than that. Sure, it's putatively set in Greyhawk, but, setting it anywhere else isn't a whole lot of work. One certainly doesn't need any knowledge of Greyhawk to run the module.

And, again, Ravenloft was released VERY early in 5e's run. As in 2016 when the market was about half the size it is now. So, it would have been written in 2015, when, although 5e was certainly gaining steam and doing really well, it was still being marketted directly to nostagia.

Look, I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm just bringing up the counter argument. Dark Sun is a pretty dim memory and likely something the majority of 5e gamers have never even heard of. I do hope that it hits that 70% mark that's getting bandied about. That would be groovy. But, I do think that folks need to understand that it's becoming less and less likely. I mean, that poll that was linked above put Dark Sun at 25%. That's the death knell of the setting. If only a quarter of the people on En World are interested in seeing it, how much less do think the general public would like to see it?

Even with viruses, I don't think the over 50s are dying off that quickly...

And nostalgia and retogaming has never been more popular.

This poll 5E - Which three topics do you most want to receive official (WotC) treatment? from last week has Dark Sun on a whopping 27%, behind only Planescape (on an even more whopping 40%).
See, but that's the problem again. 40% isn't good enough. That's DM's Guild territory. Which, again, I hope I'm wrong, but, if that 70% mark is the guideline, then, well, none of those settings have enough interest. Ghosts of Saltmarsh largely got a shot in the arm because there were no naval rules in 5e to speak of and no piratey setting. Naval stuff and pirates are always popular. I remember in 3e that I owned at least 5 different d20 D&D rulesets for running sea campaigns. It was very, very popular. So, we get a Ghosts of Saltmarsh.

But, if a given setting can't even break the 50% mark, well, it's probably not going to happen.
 

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Olrox17

Adventurer
Thing is, there is about a page of Greyhawk in Ghosts of Saltmarsh. It's pretty much setting neutral other than that. Sure, it's putatively set in Greyhawk, but, setting it anywhere else isn't a whole lot of work. One certainly doesn't need any knowledge of Greyhawk to run the module.

And, again, Ravenloft was released VERY early in 5e's run. As in 2016 when the market was about half the size it is now. So, it would have been written in 2015, when, although 5e was certainly gaining steam and doing really well, it was still being marketted directly to nostagia.

Look, I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm just bringing up the counter argument. Dark Sun is a pretty dim memory and likely something the majority of 5e gamers have never even heard of. I do hope that it hits that 70% mark that's getting bandied about. That would be groovy. But, I do think that folks need to understand that it's becoming less and less likely. I mean, that poll that was linked above put Dark Sun at 25%. That's the death knell of the setting. If only a quarter of the people on En World are interested in seeing it, how much less do think the general public would like to see it?



See, but that's the problem again. 40% isn't good enough. That's DM's Guild territory. Which, again, I hope I'm wrong, but, if that 70% mark is the guideline, then, well, none of those settings have enough interest. Ghosts of Saltmarsh largely got a shot in the arm because there were no naval rules in 5e to speak of and no piratey setting. Naval stuff and pirates are always popular. I remember in 3e that I owned at least 5 different d20 D&D rulesets for running sea campaigns. It was very, very popular. So, we get a Ghosts of Saltmarsh.

But, if a given setting can't even break the 50% mark, well, it's probably not going to happen.
Um, nothing in that poll goes above 39%. Does that mean that Enworld wants nothing out of that giant list? I don't think so.
Rather, every poster can only vote 3 options out of more than 20. In other words, you can only vote your top 3 most wanted books.

Is anything below your top 3 an undesirable product that you'd never buy? I don't think so.
 
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MGibster

Hero
I remember a player had an opportunity to wish for something and wished for an 18 strength. The DM gave him a psionic strength of 18.
 

A better way to look at that poll is that, currently, the top 5 things on the list that respondents want to see officially published from from WotC are (in order):

1) Planescape/Manual of the Planes
2) Dark Sun
3) Psionics
4) Spelljammer
5) Greyhawk

It would be interesting to see the results on of this sort of poll somewhere with a wider response base.
 

Voadam

Adventurer
I would not say frequently but it was probably the most common non core thing in 2e and 3e/PF games I played in and DM'd. 4e they came out only in PH3 late in the cycle so there was a lot of other official non-core classes before them including classes from AD&D's and 3's core.

I played two separate soul knives (I think that is the name of the mindblade class) in 3.5 and Pathfinder.
 

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
Thing is, there is about a page of Greyhawk in Ghosts of Saltmarsh. It's pretty much setting neutral other than that. Sure, it's putatively set in Greyhawk, but, setting it anywhere else isn't a whole lot of work. One certainly doesn't need any knowledge of Greyhawk to run the module.
Setting pretty much anything pretty much anywhere is not a whole lot of work, unless the place it's going to is Dark Sun or some other highly restrictive and changed setting. Usually it's just changing some names and plunking it down where you want it.

Dark Sun is a pretty dim memory and likely something the majority of 5e gamers have never even heard of. I do hope that it hits that 70% mark that's getting bandied about. That would be groovy. But, I do think that folks need to understand that it's becoming less and less likely. I mean, that poll that was linked above put Dark Sun at 25%. That's the death knell of the setting. If only a quarter of the people on En World are interested in seeing it, how much less do think the general public would like to see it?
Dark Sun was highly popular when it came out, so the number of newer players that haven't heard of it doesn't mean much. It will probably be highly popular with the new crowd if it gets made. It's a setting that has high appeal to people.

See, but that's the problem again. 40% isn't good enough.
The poll above isn't an accurate representation of the players at large. Further, a lot of people had misgivings about 2e and 3e psionics based on how they perceived 1e psionics(confusing and strange). The new crowd doesn't have a lot of the hang-ups that the older crowd does and would probably just embrace it and go.

But, if a given setting can't even break the 50% mark, well, it's probably not going to happen.
I'd bet that if they think they could hit 70%, they would make it, even if it hasn't currently hit 70% due to a majority of the new players simply not knowing about it.
 

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
Um, nothing in that poll goes above 39%. Does that mean that Enworld wants nothing out of that giant list? I don't think so.
Rather, every poster can only vote 3 options out of more than 20. In other words, you can only vote you top 3 most wanted books.

Is anything below your top 3 an undesirable product that you'd never buy? I don't think so.
This, too. If I wasn't limited to 3, almost everything on that list would have gotten a vote from me.
 

Lanefan

Victoria Rules
This, too. If I wasn't limited to 3, almost everything on that list would have gotten a vote from me.
Problem with their doing everything on the list is we'd be right back to the 2e-3e days of splat overload, which in both instances largely sank those editions.

WotC, to their great credit, seem to have learned that lesson quite well and aren't about to repeat that mistake.
 

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
Problem with their doing everything on the list is we'd be right back to the 2e-3e days of splat overload, which in both instances largely sank those editions.

WotC, to their great credit, seem to have learned that lesson quite well and aren't about to repeat that mistake.
Right. I wasn't suggesting that they make them all. I was only agreeing that the poll numbers would have been much higher across the board if we could vote for as many as we wanted.
 

Hussar

Legend
Um, nothing in that poll goes above 39%. Does that mean that Enworld wants nothing out of that giant list? I don't think so.
Rather, every poster can only vote 3 options out of more than 20. In other words, you can only vote you top 3 most wanted books.

Is anything below your top 3 an undesirable product that you'd never buy? I don't think so.
No, it means that the market for those things is so fragmented that any one of those products becomes a niche sale that WotC isn't insterested in pursuing.

That seems to be the rather cold equation that's being operated under. Sure, a new Dark Sun might be popular with new players, but, there's no way to know that is there? You have to do the market research and testing and all that goodness before you even consider the project. Same with Psionics or any number of other things. Since there isn't any clear winner for what people want, it's a much riskier thing to do.

Particularly when WotC is really putting all its eggs in one basket with such a slow release rate.
 

Olrox17

Adventurer
No, it means that the market for those things is so fragmented that any one of those products becomes a niche sale that WotC isn't insterested in pursuing.

That seems to be the rather cold equation that's being operated under. Sure, a new Dark Sun might be popular with new players, but, there's no way to know that is there? You have to do the market research and testing and all that goodness before you even consider the project. Same with Psionics or any number of other things. Since there isn't any clear winner for what people want, it's a much riskier thing to do.

Particularly when WotC is really putting all its eggs in one basket with such a slow release rate.
The market only gets fragmented if they release all of these products, all at once. Which is exactly what WotC is avoiding with their slower release rate.

If we really want to know Enworld’s opinion on a dark sun setting book, we need a poll specifically on that. You know, I might make one myself.
 

Hussar

Legend
Oh, I'm sure that if you ask the people at En World, if they want Dark Sun, they will say sure. Fair enough. Only problem is, if you ask the same question about Planescape, or any of a half dozen other settings, you'll get the same results.

All it really tells you is that En Worlders are old. :D
 

Oh, I'm sure that if you ask the people at En World, if they want Dark Sun, they will say sure. Fair enough. Only problem is, if you ask the same question about Planescape, or any of a half dozen other settings, you'll get the same results.

All it really tells you is that En Worlders are old. :D
If you look at the poll, quite a few old settings do comparatively poorly. The next one is Greyhawk at 18%. FR is shockingly unpopular compared to Dark Sun.
 

Olrox17

Adventurer
If you look at the poll, quite a few old settings do comparatively poorly. The next one is Greyhawk at 18%. FR is shockingly unpopular compared to Dark Sun.
Well, we already got a FR setting book. I'm sure that's a factor. People might want more settings rather than multiple books on just one.
 


Hussar

Legend
If you look at the poll, quite a few old settings do comparatively poorly. The next one is Greyhawk at 18%. FR is shockingly unpopular compared to Dark Sun.
But, again, comparatively poorly isn't really a measure is it? When the BEST performer is somewhere in the 1/3 range, it's not like there's a huge demand for it.

Look, again, I'm not trying to piddle in anyone's corn flakes here. I'm really not. But, if the best you can say about a setting is that 1/3 of people are interested in it, well... that's kind of damning with faint praise.

Or, to put it another way, if you know that a product is only interesting to 1/3 of your fanbase, are you going to invest several hundreds of thousands of dollars in it? Remember, WotC isn't interested in anything that's not going to move 100 000 units.
 

Olrox17

Adventurer
But, again, comparatively poorly isn't really a measure is it? When the BEST performer is somewhere in the 1/3 range, it's not like there's a huge demand for it.

Look, again, I'm not trying to piddle in anyone's corn flakes here. I'm really not. But, if the best you can say about a setting is that 1/3 of people are interested in it, well... that's kind of damning with faint praise.

Or, to put it another way, if you know that a product is only interesting to 1/3 of your fanbase, are you going to invest several hundreds of thousands of dollars in it? Remember, WotC isn't interested in anything that's not going to move 100 000 units.
Again, I believe you are interpreting the data incorrectly, but I've already made my point above.
 


atanakar

Hero
One (1) guy managed to get the percentage result required to have psionic powers with an AD&D character. He was very happy but once I started putting monsters that were attracted by his psionic aura he didn't like it so much. Never had a psionic character in my games ever since.

Never played Dark Sun or buy the original box.

During a AD&D2e game by another DM she gave a special gem to a Psionic character. He could store points in it between adventurers. It made him too powerful and unbalanced the game.
 

JediSoth

Semi-Professional Author
Epic
While I voted "Nope. Didn't use psionics at all in my D&D." That's not entirely accurate. I always allowed it as an option in my AD&D games, but no one ever chose to use it.
 

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