Zarrock God of Evil
First Post
Cassander said:
Try to use an attack roll from the opponent you are trying to avoid an AoO from as the base DC to avoid AoOs, work for me. This was suggested in Song and Silence AFAIR
-Zarrock
Last edited:
Inequality of Skills
- Thread starter Utrecht
- Start date
Try to use an attack roll from the opponent you are trying to avoid an AoO from as the base DC to avoid AoOs, work for me. This was suggested in Song and Silence AFAIR
-Zarrock
Lord Zardoz
Explorer
My opinions...
First, I have an answer for DocMoriartty...
Ever try to make a DC 15 check after taking 2d6 ability damage from poison? Or after getting nailed by Bestow Curse?
Anyway, the utility of most of the available skills is much harder to guage then it is for Feats or Spells. Its obvious how much benefit you can get out of Power Attack or Improved Disarm. The opportunity to power attack comes every time you enter melee, and Disarm is an option against any weapon using opponent. If it has a use in combat, you are all but guaranteed to get a chance to try it over the course of a campaign.
But the great majority of the Skills that are available are not particularly useful in combat. For those skills, it depends entirely on the campaign you are playing in. If your playing in a one shot run of the "Tomb of Horrors" adventure, your probably not going to get to use most of the available skills.
Lets see if I can make some broad generalizations here about the skills.
1) Civilization Dependent Skills
Gather Information, Diplomacy, Inuendo, Intimidation, and most Knowledge skills (Religion, Local History) are only useful if your DM runs adventures that require you to interact with people without killing them. Also, some of these skills are often ignored and roleplayed out directly.
2) Problem Dependent Skills
Skills such as Balance, Swim, Intuit Direction, Wilderness Lore and similar skills are only going to be useful if a situation arises that is called for them. If you never encounter a river, lake, or ocean, why learn Swim? Often, situations that call for these skills are overlooked by the DM.
3) Player Dependent Skills
Skills like Climb, Jump, Ride, Craft, Profession, Disguise, Forgery, and Alchemy are skills that a player can find or invent uses for on the fly, or that the player can choose to make useful. This is often in addition to their use for problem solving or NPC interactions. The clue here is that if you can imagine a situation player using the skill will either invalidate the DM's written adventure or black balling the situation so that the use cannot apply, then it falls into this category. Here is an example.
DM: the wizards tower stands before you. Its door beckons, and you hear sinister laughter.
PC: Screw that. If we go in the door, we are pretty much meat. I will climb the side of the tower and secure a rope to a top floor window.
DM: Err, the Tower's windows are barred...
4) Tactically useful skills
Any skill were the rules often call specifically for its use (Spot, Listen, Search, Disable Device, Concentration). Any skill where success can provide an edge in combat (Tumble, Hide, Move Silently, Use Magic Device).
Any skill from category's 1 and 2 will only show up in campagins where the game creates opportunities to use them. Skills from category 3 will show up from time to time, but their utility is dependent on the DM's co-operation with what the player wants to try. Category 4 will show up most often, since the player can be certain that the ability will be used. Outside of category 4, it's not uncommon to only see them taken to meet Prestige Class and Feat pre-requisites.
And now that I have voiced my opinion, it is very possible that people will either disagree with my categorizations of a given skill, or disagree with the definitions of the categories. Or disagree with the categories them selves.
END COMMUNICATION
First, I have an answer for DocMoriartty...
DocMoriartty said:
Ever try to make a DC 15 check after taking 2d6 ability damage from poison? Or after getting nailed by Bestow Curse?
Anyway, the utility of most of the available skills is much harder to guage then it is for Feats or Spells. Its obvious how much benefit you can get out of Power Attack or Improved Disarm. The opportunity to power attack comes every time you enter melee, and Disarm is an option against any weapon using opponent. If it has a use in combat, you are all but guaranteed to get a chance to try it over the course of a campaign.
But the great majority of the Skills that are available are not particularly useful in combat. For those skills, it depends entirely on the campaign you are playing in. If your playing in a one shot run of the "Tomb of Horrors" adventure, your probably not going to get to use most of the available skills.
Lets see if I can make some broad generalizations here about the skills.
1) Civilization Dependent Skills
Gather Information, Diplomacy, Inuendo, Intimidation, and most Knowledge skills (Religion, Local History) are only useful if your DM runs adventures that require you to interact with people without killing them. Also, some of these skills are often ignored and roleplayed out directly.
2) Problem Dependent Skills
Skills such as Balance, Swim, Intuit Direction, Wilderness Lore and similar skills are only going to be useful if a situation arises that is called for them. If you never encounter a river, lake, or ocean, why learn Swim? Often, situations that call for these skills are overlooked by the DM.
3) Player Dependent Skills
Skills like Climb, Jump, Ride, Craft, Profession, Disguise, Forgery, and Alchemy are skills that a player can find or invent uses for on the fly, or that the player can choose to make useful. This is often in addition to their use for problem solving or NPC interactions. The clue here is that if you can imagine a situation player using the skill will either invalidate the DM's written adventure or black balling the situation so that the use cannot apply, then it falls into this category. Here is an example.
DM: the wizards tower stands before you. Its door beckons, and you hear sinister laughter.
PC: Screw that. If we go in the door, we are pretty much meat. I will climb the side of the tower and secure a rope to a top floor window.
DM: Err, the Tower's windows are barred...
4) Tactically useful skills
Any skill were the rules often call specifically for its use (Spot, Listen, Search, Disable Device, Concentration). Any skill where success can provide an edge in combat (Tumble, Hide, Move Silently, Use Magic Device).
Any skill from category's 1 and 2 will only show up in campagins where the game creates opportunities to use them. Skills from category 3 will show up from time to time, but their utility is dependent on the DM's co-operation with what the player wants to try. Category 4 will show up most often, since the player can be certain that the ability will be used. Outside of category 4, it's not uncommon to only see them taken to meet Prestige Class and Feat pre-requisites.
And now that I have voiced my opinion, it is very possible that people will either disagree with my categorizations of a given skill, or disagree with the definitions of the categories. Or disagree with the categories them selves.
END COMMUNICATION
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