Inspiration is a PC-on-PC Social Skills Question

[mellored]

Hmm... How would you feel about the use of mixed buff/penalty effects on other PCs?

I.e. one creature gains advantage on attacks, and everyone get's advantage on attacks against them.

Call it "magical" for the moment, to avoid any need to say how it's done. Just what would be the social implications of such effects?

 

[Zardnaar]

Hmm... How would you feel about the use of mixed buff/penalty effects on other PCs?

I.e. one creature gains advantage on attacks, and everyone get's advantage on attacks against them.

Call it "magical" for the moment, to avoid any need to say how it's done. Just what would be the social implications of such effects?

Depends on how it is implemented. Compare with the mastermind ability. Also depends on how good the other warlord abilities are. Doesn't even need to be magical.

 

[jayoungr]

I am with mellored on one thing. I don't know anyone in game that actively rejects buffs from whatever source.

While I can definietely see the philosophical pitfalls of such a thing, I really can't imagine such coming up in play much at all. People accept when a buff is offered and don't tend to think about things like player agency at the table unless the thing in questions causes a direct action that they have no control over. In fact I'd venture to say that there are two categories we could place abilities that affect player agency into and one type is much more readily accepted than the other.

So in other words, you assume that all players care more about mechanical benefits than roleplay? Because I would re-word your statement above as "If a player is getting a mechanical benefit in a particular situation, they either won't think about the roleplaying aspects or they will ignore them because, free buff!"

Hmm... How would you feel about the use of mixed buff/penalty effects on other PCs?

I.e. one creature gains advantage on attacks, and everyone get's advantage on attacks against them.

Call it "magical" for the moment, to avoid any need to say how it's done. Just what would be the social implications of such effects?

I don't see this as an equivalent situation. You're talking in purely mechanical terms; I'm talking about a situation where the (probably welcome) mechanical aspect brings with it a (possibly unwelcome) roleplay implication.

 

[Bawylie]

I resolve PC on PC action by mutual agreement or by leaving it to the recipient of the action.

In essence, you don't have to be inspired, charmed, cured, blessed, or whatever, if you don't want to be.

Never comes up, though. Most people want to be healed or buffed.

The whole "what if I don't find the warlord inspiring?" argument is contrarian. What if you're an atheist, do cleric spells work? Who cares.

Buy in or don't. That's the bottom line.

 

[mellored]

I don't see this as an equivalent situation. You're talking in purely mechanical terms; I'm talking about a situation where the (probably welcome) mechanical aspect brings with it a (possibly unwelcome) roleplay implication.

So something like...

"Target creature gains aspects of a demon; spouting horns, claws, and a tail. Their eyes narrow and turn yellow as their skin becomes a dull red. The target gains advantage on intimidation checks, resistance to fire damage, and a climb speed equal to it's walk speed."
?

Yea, i would defiantly add "willing" in front of that.

 

[Lord Twig]

So something like...

"Target creature gains aspects of a demon; spouting horns, claws, and a tail. Their eyes narrow and turn yellow as their skin becomes a dull red. The target gains advantage on intimidation checks, resistance to fire damage, and a climb speed equal to it's walk speed."
?

Yea, i would defiantly add "willing" in front of that.

This is getting close to the idea. So consider if a Cleric's Bless started with the following statement:

"The target is inspired by the glory and power of your deity..."

OR

"The target is filled with love and devotion to your deity..."

It doesn't matter that it is magic. It doesn't matter that you can choose to not roll the extra d4. Your character is having his thoughts and emotions manipulated.

People have already said things to the effect of: "What if you don't like the Cleric or his god?"

The thing is, you don't need to like the Cleric or his god to get the effect. You just need to accept the magical spell. Magic does the work, no love or devotion required.

Warlord inspiration (and other forms of inspiration already in the game) require that you do. It is just bad form to force a role-played attitude on someone else's character.

 

[Lord Twig]

Incidentally, in a game I'm currently running we have a Bard that loves handing out inspiration. And why wouldn't she? She's a Bard!

So she looked that the druid character and said: "Your in the middle of a bunch of enemies. I'm going to give you inspiration!"

The player shrugged his shoulders and said: "Okay, I guess I'm inspired."

Now I know this player. His characters are typically cynical and arrogant, and this one was no exception. His view of the bard would be one of condescending amusement. He would not be inspired by her. But he was anyway because 1. the bard ability said he was and 2. because he doesn't want to rain on the bard player's parade.

You know how someone might come up to you and tell you that you should do something? Then you politely nod and continue what you were going to do anyway? That's the relationship these two should have. But that is not possible because of mechanics.

 

[jayoungr]

So something like...

"Target creature gains aspects of a demon; spouting horns, claws, and a tail. Their eyes narrow and turn yellow as their skin becomes a dull red. The target gains advantage on intimidation checks, resistance to fire damage, and a climb speed equal to it's walk speed."
?

That's definitely closer. But even in that case, the target of the spell doesn't have to love you for casting it, even if they accept the effect. You could have an awesome roleplay scene later where the target chews out the caster, in fact.

 

[Lord Twig]

And I should answer the original post...

Yes, inspiration effects are the same as using persuade or intimidation on other players.

And just because it says you have to be willing doesn't really make it any better. As Chris Carlson pointed out, you are then left with a choice of accepting the buff despite the fluff, even though it is against your character concept, or refuse the buff and be a jerk to the warlord player. So yes, you have a choice. They are both bad choices, but you get to choose which bad choice to pick. Yay?

 

[Tony Vargas]

And I should answer the original post...

Yes, inspiration effects are the same as using persuade or intimidation on other players.

And just because it says you have to be willing doesn't really make it any better.

It really does make it a lot better. The ball remains in your court, you decide how your PC feels and reacts. You may miss out on a bonus, but there's lots of ways RPing can do that to you (your magic-distrusting Barbarian forgoing buff spells, your devotion to a rival deity causing you to refuse the help of a cleric, simply failing to coordinate your efforts, etc), 5e isn't so finely tuned that anything short of the optimal decisions every time will gank you.

you are then left with a choice of accepting the buff despite the fluff, even though it is against your character concept, or refuse the buff and be a jerk to the warlord player. So yes, you have a choice. They are both bad choices, but you get to choose which bad choice to pick. Yay?

Well, you set yourself up for that when you decided to play the loner/misanthrope/narcissist/whatever who won't work well with others. If you chose to play such a difficult character, surely coming up against such difficulties supports the concept. Typically, in fiction, such characters develop and may overcome their issues to forge at least one friendship - right before they die heroically, for instance.

But, no, I wouldn't worry too much about possibly being a jerk to one player at one table, the few times it takes to establish the relationship (until such time, if ever, as your character develops in a new direction, or the two of you work out a fluff that does fit). At least, not compared to being a jerk to everyone who might ever want to play a Warlord in 5e.