Inspiration is a PC-on-PC Social Skills Question

Sure, you can just decide the character is inspired and everything works fine, but that's the thing. You have to decide that your character is inspired for everything to work. Having your character not be inspired if a false option. It's only an option if you are willing to refuse a buff, reduce the fun of the other player and be accused of lacking teamwork (which I have been accused of in this very thread).

And it is understandable that people who play Bards and Warlords would never notice any problem. That's because people like myself don't say anything during the game. We don't want to disrupt the game or bring anyone down. So we bury the annoyance and move on. Then, in my case at least, it picks at me more and more until I can't take it anymore and I have to express my annoyance to a bunch of strangers on a web forum. ;)

Exactly, you can just decide your character is inspired and then everything works fine. So why is it now a problem to decide your character is inspiried? What are you losing by doing so? A choice about being inspired? Okay sure. And before mechanical inspiration you had empty choices about whether your character was inspired by a fellow party member. It never mattered. Inspired or not he always fought the same and thus before mechanical inspiration you could make a good case that no matter what you claimed that your character wasn't actually inspired to fight better because ultimately he did not.

IMO, there is no choice about whether you are inspired by character X if there is no mechanic to support it. It's simply empty words. Fighter declares that the paladin has inspired him to fight better. DM, what benefit does my fighter get for being inspired by the paladin. DM, ummm nothing. Fighter then asks, so my inspiried fighter fights the same as an uninspired fighter. DM, yes. You see, when inspired fighting = uninspired fighting then being inspired = being uninspired. There is no choice about inspiration, just empty words.
 

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And yet for months you've been asked to present an inspiring warlord build that does not tread in that arena. Where is it? You and your cadre of warlordists have repeatedly tried and failed.

Why you think that is?
Show me where Martin Luther King said "you must worship me or i won't grant you extra (civil rights) movement." He didn't. That's not how you inspire.

Inspiring is all about "we", "you", or "us".

"We cannot walk alone.

And as we walk, we must make the pledge that we shall always march ahead.

We cannot turn back."

"I am not unmindful that some of you have come here out of great trials and tribulations. Some of you have come fresh from narrow jail cells. And some of you have come from areas where your quest -- quest for freedom left you battered by the storms of persecution and staggered by the winds of police brutality. You have been the veterans of creative suffering."

"Let us not wallow in the valley of despair, I say to you today, my friends."

If you're talking about yourself, your not inspiring. Your boasting, and not doing a good job playing warlord.


"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." -- Eleanor Roosevelt
 

Show me where Martin Luther King said "you must worship me or i won't grant you extra (civil rights) movement."
As soon as you show me where it says MLK was a warlord.

And again, your strawmen are weak. I've never stated there should be no inspiration, nor that it does not exist.
 

As soon as you show me where it says MLK was a warlord.
I'm sure that his words inspired people to endure greater hardships then they would of on their own.

And i'm sure it wasn't magic.

And again, your strawmen are weak. I've never stated there should be no inspiration, nor that it does not exist.
The strawman is that warlords inspiration forces you to respect you.

Which is false.
 

I'm sure that his words inspired people to endure greater hardships then they would of on their own.

And i'm sure it wasn't magic.
Agreed. And there's a feat for it already that handles that concept. Problem solved.

The strawman is that warlords inspiration forces you to respect you.

Which is false.
Prove it. Show me one. That's all you need do. Show me the inspirational warlord that does not tread in that arena.
 

Exactly, you can just decide your character is inspired and then everything works fine. So why is it now a problem to decide your character is inspiried? What are you losing by doing so? A choice about being inspired? Okay sure. And before mechanical inspiration you had empty choices about whether your character was inspired by a fellow party member. It never mattered. Inspired or not he always fought the same and thus before mechanical inspiration you could make a good case that no matter what you claimed that your character wasn't actually inspired to fight better because ultimately he did not.

IMO, there is no choice about whether you are inspired by character X if there is no mechanic to support it. It's simply empty words. Fighter declares that the paladin has inspired him to fight better. DM, what benefit does my fighter get for being inspired by the paladin. DM, ummm nothing. Fighter then asks, so my inspiried fighter fights the same as an uninspired fighter. DM, yes. You see, when inspired fighting = uninspired fighting then being inspired = being uninspired. There is no choice about inspiration, just empty words.

There were mechanical benefits in the past, but it was handed out as a bonus by the DM and anyone could do it. Now it would be the Inspiration mechanic which is in 5e and again, anyone can do. As soon as you add the Warlord, now it is only the Warlord that can do it.

This is similar to how every time they added a feat in 3.x/pathfinder, all of a sudden no one else could do that thing.

Player: "I want to shoot two arrows at once! Legolas is cool!"

DM: "Okay, take a -5 to hit but roll your arrow damage twice if you hit."

Double Shot feat comes out (or whatever it was called).

Player: "I want to shoot two arrows at once! Legolas is cool!"

DM: "Sorry, you don't have the feat. You can't do that."
 

The character works fine with others, except the Bard and the Warlord.
That's just begging the question. You hypothetically decided that your character would be uninspireable for whatever reason, refusing to be inspired and foregoing bonuses from Bard and Warlords and Clerics casting Aid and maybe even refusing the occasional Help action depending on how it's described, is all just supporting that character concept, mechanically, not sabotaging it.

If you don't like those types of characters, fine, don't play them. I don't like Bards, so I don't play them.
I can't pretend to disagree with you on that point. ;P

Inspirational classes require all other characters to be inspired by them. One based on team tactics would require that the other characters accept their tactics, and, yes, magical characters require that the other characters accept their magic.
All characters 'require' their concept to be acknowledged by the other players around the table, and chargen mechanics are a way of resolving those concepts so everyone can have a remotely compatible idea of what everyone else is playing. Bards and Warlords are in no way unique in that sense. Any character concept become an issue of someone at the table feels a need to deny it.

That potential, even if you think it is greater with some classes than others, is no reason to deny a class or concept to /everyone/.

*So if I don't try to stop people from playing Bards, why am I trying to prevent Warlords? Well, I don't want Bards either, but they are already in the game, and have been for some time.
That's no different than saying that the Warlord and it's fans must be excluded because it was from 4e, and that's very much at odds with the spirit in which 5e was conceived.

If you want to dictate to people what they can and can't play, do it to their faces, at the table - don't try to get WotC to do your dirty work for you.

Sure, you can just decide the character is inspired and everything works fine, but that's the thing. You have to decide that your character is inspired for everything to work. Having your character not be inspired if a false option. It's only an option if you are willing to refuse a buff, reduce the fun of the other player and be accused of lacking teamwork (which I have been accused of in this very thread).
It's a very real option, it's just an option that has mechanical support, and may open up RP opportunities, depending on what it is about your character (assuming it is about your character) that's causing the issue, and how it might be resolved.

And it is understandable that people who play Bards and Warlords would never notice any problem. That's because people like myself don't say anything during the game. We don't want to disrupt the game or bring anyone down. So we bury the annoyance and move on. Then, in my case at least, it picks at me more and more until I can't take it anymore and I have to express my annoyance to a bunch of strangers on a web forum. ;)
Don't kid yourself: everyone goes through that about some pet peeve or other. Awful-Good Paladins. Psionics. Kender. Meta-gaming. Threats to immersion. Class imbalances. Hit points. Vancian casting. Gnomes. Whatever. Burying annoyance isn't as good (for you) as letting it go, or even opening up to the possibility that there's some positives to the thing that annoys you, or, at least, being honest with the folks you're gaming with about what you want from the game.

But, sure, venting about it on-line, no problem. Demanding WotC take your venting as reason to exclude options from the game, OTOH, not cool.

As I've said, I've even played in a 4E game alongside a warlord and not given it a second thought. But in retrospect, I do dislike having to picture my character as worshiping the warlord's wonderfulness every time she handed out bonuses.
There's never been any need to do so. That's only one possible way of imagining inspiration, and a pretty hackneyed one, at that. And, you didn't even do it at the time, it's only in retrospect, when you go looking for a problem, that you've fabricated one.
 


Agreed. And there's a feat for it already that handles that concept. Problem solved.
So we can eliminate bard, cleric, druid, sorcerer, warlock, and wizard because there's a feat that let's you cast a spell?

Prove it. Show me one. That's all you need do. Show me the inspirational warlord that does not tread in that arena.
Here's 4e's inspiring words.

"You call out to a wounded ally and offer inspiring words of courage and determination that invigorates your comrade".
The target can spend a healing surge. If the target does so, he or she regains 1d6 additional hit points.

And here's 4e's Inspiring Presence sub-class feature.
"You lead by helping your allies find courage and endurance within themselves."


Now, you show me an ability that forces you to respect the warlord? Just one.
 


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