Inspire Greatness -- Bonus Hit Dice?

[Artoomis]

Hit Dice are what give Creatures the Basic Abilities that they have. Class Levels modify the Basic set of abilities given by Type and Hit Dice....

You have it exactly backwards. The PHB is the book which all else modifies, thus levels control basic abilities unless stated otherwise, and the Monster Manual does indeed state otherwise for monsters without levels.

 

[Nifft]

I disagree. I came to the same conclusion about the use of the word "temporary" in that rule, and independent of Hyp.

Your best case scenario is an unusual form of temporary hit points, since these temporary hit points are modified by your Con score, which never happens for any other temporary hit points, and adds a new element to them (what happens if your Con changes while you have those temporary hit points). I see two rationale interpretations there for sure, and I think denying that the other interpretation is at least rationale is a stretch.

Take a look at the class that comes immediately before Bard. Four pages before the description of Inspire Greatness, you'll see the description of Rage.

Note the trouble they go through to be very unambiguous about the nature of those bonus, transient, ephemeral, non-permanent -- and yet not temporary -- hit points.

When they say the words "temporary hit points", they mean it.

(And all forms of temporary hit points are "unusual". There's no standard formula.)

Cheers, -- N

 

[Mistwell]

But...

In each of those cases it is something special, with special rules.

I find absolutely no evidence that this would apply here.

I tend to agree, I was just pointing out that bonus HD is not an issue reserved just for creatures, at least not anymore. But, my instincts say that if it was supposed to work that way, they would have put that language in the PHB in that ability text itself, just because it's not obviously otherwise, and a significant power boost to have been overlooked as far as clarifying language goes.

 

[Mistwell]

Take a look at the class that comes immediately before Bard. Four pages before the description of Inspire Greatness, you'll see the description of Rage.

Note the trouble they go through to be very unambiguous about the nature of those bonus, transient, ephemeral, non-permanent -- and yet not temporary -- hit points.

When they say the words "temporary hit points", they mean it.

(And all forms of temporary hit points are "unusual". There's no standard formula.)

Cheers, -- N

There is a formula. There is a whole system for tracking temporary hit points, and healing them, and all that. And most of it doesn't work with this particular ability, because it is dependent on Con (unlike all other temporary hit points). You get the commensurate hit points - which means if your con changes the hit points change.

I really think they meant temporary in the normal use of that word, to modify hit dice in this case. Otherwise the system goes wonky. Under your interpretation, where they function like regular temporary hit points, they are fixed. So I can rage, then get inspire greatness, and get the commensurate temporary hit points based on my Raging Con, and then the rage can end and my Con goes back down, but the temporary hit points stay the same. That means they are no longer based on Con, which I do not think is how these hit points are intended to work.

On the other hand if it is temporary hit dice, then this ability functions fine. It rises and falls (as it should) as your Con changes.

Your interpretation is much more easily gamed, and doesn't seem to follow the intent of this rule. And given there are two reasonable interpretations, I think it's best to go with the one that is more consistent with the rule you are dealing with (where it is linked to Con, and hence temporary hit dice).

 

[Slaved]

They used "Hit Dice" because:

1. They wanted Con bonus to apply

and

2. They wanted the character to have a greater number of Hit Die for spell effects purposes.

They could have done both of these without bringing up Hit Dice.

 

[Slaved]

You have it exactly backwards. The PHB is the book which all else modifies, thus levels control basic abilities unless stated otherwise, and the Monster Manual does indeed state otherwise for monsters without levels.

So you are going to ignore what I said? My post shows that when following what you have said we are lead to confusing dead ends where we do not know what to do.

 

[Artoomis]

So you are going to ignore what I said? My post shows that when following what you have said we are lead to confusing dead ends where we do not know what to do.

No, I did not ignore it, I corrected your misperception.

And no, contrary to your position, following what I said is absolutley, positively clear every time and even follows the rules.

Anyway, sad to say, there appears to be no convincing argument that I am wrong. Too bad, for that means I do not get a power boost for my Bard's Inspire Greatness.

 

[Artoomis]

They could have done both of these without bringing up Hit Dice.

Not so easily, not to accomplish the same ends. I think that any other attempt to get the same results would have liklely been more confusing.

Had I written the description, The only thing I would have changed is to remove the word "temporary" in the description.

 

[Nifft]

There is a formula.

Post it.

There is a whole system for tracking temporary hit points, and healing them, and all that.

You think temporary hit points are something you can heal?

Under your interpretation, where they function like regular temporary hit points, they are fixed.

I don't recall saying that. I think you're adding things to my position and then pointing at those things as bad.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Slaved]

No, I did not ignore it, I corrected your misperception.

Except that you corrected nothing and provided no evidence for your position or any evidence that contradicted what I said. In fact what I posted directly refutes what you have said and shows that if we use what you have said we are left with Animal Companion Camels that are unable to gain Bonus Hit Dice from the Druid or Ranger Classes.