Inspire Greatness -- Bonus Hit Dice?

[Slaved]

Interestingly when Advancing a Humanoid it takes 4 Hit Dice in order to increase the Challenge Rating by 1.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I'm also not sold on the idea that song of the heart increases the actual # of bonus HD...rather the total hitpoints....

Read the feat again. It states what happens when used with Inspire Greatness - and specifically says "3 bonus hit dice".

-Hyp.

 

[Mistwell]

I'm also not sold on the idea that song of the heart increases the actual # of bonus HD...rather the total hitpoints....It's already a very strong feat if it only worked on inspire courage. How many other feats effectively say 'your allies all gain +1 to hit and damage'

Song of the Heart (Eberron Campaign Setting, pg. 60).
Pre-Req: Bardic Music Class Feature, Inspire Competence ability, Perform 6 ranks.
Benefit: When you use inspire courage, inspire competence, inspire greatness, or inspire heroics, any bonus granted by your music increases by +1. Thus, a 15th-level bard with this feat grants his allies a +4 bonus on attack rolls, damage rolls, and saving throws against fear when he uses inspire courage, rather than the +3 he would normally grant. If he uses inspire greatness, the same bard grants up to three allies 3 bonus Hit Dice, a +3 bonus on attack rolls, and a +2 bonus on Fortitude saves.
Also, when you use fascinate, suggestion, or mass suggestion, the saving throw DC increases by 1.
If you have the Haunting Melody feat, the saving throw C for that effect also increases by 1. If you have the Music of Growth feat, the bonus bestowed by that feat increases to +6. If you have the Music of Making feat, the bonus on Craft checks bestowed by that feat increases to +6. If you have the Soothe the Beast feat, you gain a +2 circumstance bonus on your Perform check to improve the attitude of an animal or magical beast.

 

[Artoomis]

...I think it is obvious that the ability was not intended to grant extra BAB or save bonuses or feats. ...'

Well, of course not. All three of those things are based on level, not hit dice.

 

[Slaved]

Well, of course not. All three of those things are based on level, not hit dice.

While they all do come with gaining Class Levels the Character also gains Hit Dice along with those Class Levels. Why do you believe that they are separate? The Advancing Creatures section of the System Resource Document is clear about what Hit Dice grant to Creatures and it includes Base Attack Bonus, Saving Throw Bonuses, and Bonus Feats.

 

[Artoomis]

While they all do come with gaining Class Levels the Character also gains Hit Dice along with those Class Levels. Why do you believe that they are separate? The Advancing Creatures section of the System Resource Document is clear about what Hit Dice grant to Creatures and it includes Base Attack Bonus, Saving Throw Bonuses, and Bonus Feats.

That's for monsters, not PCs.

PCs are strictly level-based. It's quite possible for a PC to have Hit Dice that do not match levels, as can easily be seen from characters that have a "level adjustment."

It's not even possible to decide, for example, what Saving Throw bonuses might apply as you must know which level advancement chart to use (for PCs).

These "Bonus Hit Dice" are an odd thing - they are not tied to race or class in any way, thus no race or class benefits will accrue. Thus, you'll get CON bonuses and anything ties to Hit Dice, but not benefits tied to level advancement.

For many reasons, I do not see how any other approach is either workable or complies with the Inspire Greatness description.

In truth, I am not sure that there are any benefits to PCs from Bonus Hit Dice (as opposed to Levels) other than hit points and certain spell effects.

 

[Slaved]

Why are Hit Dice based Bonuses only for Non-Player Characters? Where does it say that in the Rules?

 

[Artoomis]

Why are Hit Dice based Bonuses only for Non-Player Characters? Where does it say that in the Rules?

You need to be cautious about using the SRD for this sort of information - the full rules for level advancement are only in the PHB.

The rules for "creature advancement " are in the Monster Manual and don't apply to PCs, for PCs have there own rules for advancement.

 

[Slaved]

I see nothing to support your conclusion.

 

[Artoomis]

Also,

Even in the SRD the line "As its Hit Dice increase, a creature’s attack bonuses and saving throw modifiers might improve. It gains more feats and skills, depending on its type, as shown on Table: Creature Improvement by Type." is in the "Improving Monsters" section, which clearly does not apply to PCs. (See http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20/article/srd35)

How about that for supporting my conclusion? Seems pretty clear-cut to me.

I anxiously await any response that might counter my conclusion....