Interesting Arcane Archer question...

[Mordeth]

Or Flame Arrow is a direct translation from 2e and nobody bothered to check the actual rules on things. Note its the only spell that combines an attack roll and a Reflex save.

And I cant point to a source because WotC refuses to comment on the spell. Its broke, they refuse to fix it. It only takes changing from REF to FORT.

Not sure if I read what you wrote correctly but, in Tome of Blood, the Acid Orb line has a attack roll and a Fort save. We assumed it had such due to the fact of the d8 damage dice. Not sure if that helps or not.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Flame Arrow is a real spell.
It breaks an unwritten rule: no spell or ability should allow a Reflex save and force a ranged touch attack - double jeopardy. Although, in practice, missing a ranged touch attack is very difficult, unless your opponent is using Displacement, Mirror Image, or some kind of Invisibility. (This is what Sean K Reynolds said about Spellfire. I don't know if I agree with him. )

I like that remark about the nuke. Now find me a rogue who can make a Reflex save DC 100. And if the epic rogue lives (he's epic, so it could happen), he'd better have a really good Fortitude save to avoid the radiation after-effect.

Where did I get the DC 100? I just made it up. I think a really high save DC is in order, though.

 

[Marshall]

Flame Arrow is a real spell.
It breaks an unwritten rule: no spell or ability should allow a Reflex save and force a ranged touch attack - double jeopardy.

Except its a written rule: DMG pg 81, Last line under Rays. Note that "Energy Missiles" did not exist at the time of the DMGs printing and "Rays" covers all RTA effects.

 

[mseds99]

quote:
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Originally posted by Kai Lord

What are suggesting? That the arrow doesn't hit you but you instead sustain injury through dodging the arrow and banging your head on a branch?
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Possibly. However, if that's the best you can come up with, you shouldn't be playing D&D.

Actually ,I thought that was a pretty funny visual. Of course, it could be the drugs.

 

[greymarch]

If you are trying to apply realism to a fantasy roleplaying game, then you are wasting your time. You would get a save from an Arcane archer's fireball because of game balance. It would be too powerful otherwise.

 

[Kibo]

Things that don't make ya go hmmm

You, sir, are a Troll. I've noticed that Hong doesn't take to Trolls by ignoring them, like many of us. He goes in, makes very good points, and often comes out on top. Quite impressive really.

It's another example of people trying to explain the rules with RL logic. Ordinary logic applied to extraordinary things (PHB 40, 48, 126, 158).

By the way, pay close attention to the second to the last sentence on 158. It's kinda key here.

Hong, well he's not the only person on my ignore list for nothing.

And Troll's don't ask insightful questions and then debate the merits of possible answers. Trolls make patently moronic statments to get a head count of all the newbies, morons, and dweebs who feel compelled to show off.

Something like "Come on, everyone knows Magret Weis invented D&D!" would be an nice obvious troll. A more obvious troll would be, "Everyone knows Magret Thatcher wrote the best Dragonlance books!" A cupcake isn't a fish, and calling a cupcake a fish doesn't give people a great deal of cause to take your ideas seriously.

Too bad your application of said logic is limited to, "The book says you always get a reflex save, dispite not even discussing circumstances where this wouldn't make any sense, and besides, Hong is sooooo dreamy."

Kia Lord on the other hand is saying, if the fireball detonates on impact and the arrow impacts enough to deal damage, then the fireball must explode on the surface of, if not actually inside of, the target, how does one escape from the blast but not the arrow in that circumstance?

One might assume that if your pc's were sleeping and a wizard came upon them and cast silence, darkness, and then fireball at them that they'd get a reflex save, probably without penalty. "Well the book said so, and books are always complete and never wrong."

In short one might infer, should they be giving you the benefit of the doubt, that you're either being sarcastic, or trolling. Ironic. Should this be the case, kudos, well played.

 

[Lela]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Hmm...

Too bad your application of said logic is limited to, "The book says you always get a reflex save, dispite not even discussing circumstances where this wouldn't make any sense, and besides, Hong is sooooo dreamy."

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You have no idea.

 

[hong]

Re: Things that don't make ya go hmmm

Hong, well he's not the only person on my ignore list for nothing.

Darn, and here's me with an entire web page devoted to you.

Some people are never satisfied.

And Troll's don't ask insightful questions and then debate the merits of possible answers. Trolls make patently moronic statments to get a head count of all the newbies, morons, and dweebs who feel compelled to show off.

Something like "Come on, everyone knows Magret Weis invented D&D!" would be an nice obvious troll. A more obvious troll would be, "Everyone knows Magret Thatcher wrote the best Dragonlance books!"

Now come on, everyone knows that Magret Thatcher has nothing to do with D&D. You're thinking of Ann Margret, who wrote the entire Dragonlance Chronicles in one sitting while hyped up on speed. This was while she was still in her post-Elvis grieving stage, you see.