Interesting implement question

[Dr Midnight]

Let's say a Warlock has a pact blade and the SNEAK OF SHADOWS feat. Pact blades are light blades and implements. Could the warlock use its sneak attack ability with a warlock attack power with the implement keyword? It's an attack in which you are using a light blade.

I'm not really interested in what people would "rule" on the topic, I want to know if I'm missing an official rule that might block this loophole. By the book, it seems to be rules-kosher.

 

[Branduil]

If you have combat advantage yes you can use sneak attack.

 

[zsek320]

Actually with a closer look sneak attack says that you must use a light blade weapon, however when using a pact blade you are using a light blade implement so you can't use sneak attack with warlock powers...

 

[GorTeX]

you'd get the sneak attack damage if the power you were using has the Weapon keyword--but I don't know of any powers that have both implement and weapon keywords...

 

[Dr Midnight]

Actually with a closer look sneak attack says that you must use a light blade weapon, however when using a pact blade you are using a light blade implement so you can't use sneak attack with warlock powers...

A pact blade is both a weapon and an implement.

you'd get the sneak attack damage if the power you were using has the Weapon keyword--but I don't know of any powers that have both implement and weapon keywords...

Sneak Attack doesn't specify that the attack has to involve the weapon keyword.

 

[Rith the Wanderer]

"are using a weapon from the light blade, the crossbow, or the sling weapon group"

I'm sure you could interpret "using" to apply in this case, but I also think you could interpret this just as easily as actually hitting with that weapon (the power has a [W] in it and a weapon keyword). I think its fairly obvious was the intended meaning is, and due to the ambiguity I don't think you can make a convincing RAW argument for this.

If it had said something that has a specific in game definition like use as an accessory to an attack (as per the accessory keyword) then you might have a case. But using just the english word "use" requires interpretation, and interpretation demands we look at RAI, which is fairly obvious in this case.​

 

[GorTeX]

A pact blade is both a weapon and an implement.

Yes, but it is used as an implement when the Implement Keyword is part of the power and it is used as a weapon when the Weapon Keyword is part of the power.

You don't get the +3 prof bonus to hit when using the Pact Dagger as an implement, and you do get the +3 prof bonus to hit when using the Pact Dagger as a weapon.

Same with sneak attack (IMO)...used as an implement, no sneak attack. Used as a weapon, sneak attack.

 

[Dr Midnight]

Yes, but it is used as an implement when the Implement Keyword is part of the power and it is used as a weapon when the Weapon Keyword is part of the power.

Could you cite a page number for this? I need to have concrete rules, and having to specify a use for an object in one of the books would certainly do... I agree that common sense seems to say that this is a loophole that shouldn't work, but in a hard rules situation, I don't have room for interpretations. Thanks.

 

[PrecociousApprentice]

What about say a Frost Pactblade? Wintertouched/Lasting frost with warlock powers?

 

[Rith the Wanderer]

What about say a Frost Pactblade? Wintertouched/Lasting frost with warlock powers?

"All damage dealt by this weapon is cold damage."

The weapon is clearly not dealing the damage.​