Intimidate with STR

[Shader]

Quick question, with some disclaimers to kick off. I don't have the Search facility and I *did* have a quick butchers through the posts, but couldn't find what I was after.

My question is regarding the Intimidate skill with the STR stat instead of CHA.

I felt sure I had read an official source that bowed to popular pressure and allowed the Intimidate skill to be used with STR instead of CHA to perform a more threatening Intimidate. The basis was that while CHA could be used to almost emotionally blackmail or subtly coerce a character, the STR side would be used for a more direct, threatening approach.

The problem is that I'll be damned to Hell and back if I can find the source for it, but would REALLY like to use it for an upcoming character. I have some Mongoose Publishing material with the change in, but cannot find the actual source c/o Wizards.

Can anyone know remember the source, please, or am I talking from my bottom?

Very many thanks in advance.

-s-

 

[Thanee]

It was in one of the 3.0 splatbooks, I think. Sword & Fist, Song & Silence, or Master of the Wild, probably.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Bauglir]

Yuck!

I've heard this one officially ruled somewhere but I really hate it.

I can only assume it's based off the idea that a very strong character is obviously very capable of hurting the subject.. Except that physical strength is hardly the only way to go about hurting someone in D&D. Somehow the frail old wizard who just blasted all your companions with a lightning bolt and currently has you flailing helplessly in mid-air using Telekinesis is less threatening than the barbarian behind him flexing like he's auditioning for Mr Universe? Please.

 

[the Jester]

Meh.

Strength might impress, awe or frighten, but charisma is what makes them do what you want.

 

[HellHound]

The issue with intimidating with Strength is of course that the target doesn't do what you want. A successful Strength based intimidate will result in a person being scared, sure, but definitely not doing what you want. People intimidated by Strength tend to do stupid things, or resist significantly.

I can't remember any D&D book specifically bowing to the demands for Strength based intimidate, but I tend to sckip over those rules sections in non OGL books I do know that at least one d20 book had a feat for this, however.

 

[Khristos]

It first made an appearance in Sword & Fist..... I dont know if it was ressurected in Complete Warrior

 

[Kae'Yoss]

You can't intimidate people with Str. You can frighten them or threaten them, but the fine art of intimidation isn't for brutes.

If you use Str to bully someone, they call for reinforcements, lie to you, ran away, or resist. You might be stronger than them, but you aren't stronger than them and their army. But if you Intimidate them, they *know* that the reinforcements won't arrive in time to save them, that they can't run or hide from you, that you know when they're lying, and that resistance is futile. It is no fear, it is a cold certainty.

You can use str for what some DM's associate with Intimidate (especially before 3.5 where the effect was spelled out), namely frightening people, who might just ruin your plans by running away and screaming like a child (I always loved it when a DM used my good Intimidate roll against me in that way - especially when it was one of the few rolls I didn't fumble that session)

 

[Horishijin]

You can't intimidate people with Str. You can frighten them or threaten them, but the fine art of intimidation isn't for brutes.

That is a good way of looking at it. You can probably look to the cinema for many examples. One that comes to mind for me is Christopher Walken. Not a physically intimidating presence, but by using voice, meter and sheer presence he creates characters who are frightfully intimidating.

 

[Christian]

As I always do when this subject comes up, I'll mention my favorite cinematic example. In the original Star Wars, Chewbacca is growling and roaring at Artoo after losing a piece in their holographic 'chess' game:

Threepio: "It was a fair move. There's no point screaming about it."
Solo: "Let it go. It's not wise to upset a Wookie."
Threepio: "But sir, noone worries about upsetting a droid."
Solo: "That's because droids don't tear people's arms out of their sockets when they lose."
Threepio: "Oh ... Artoo, I suggest a new strategy ..."

Chewbacca's size and Strength can make people nervous. But it takes Solo's Charisma to make their fear translate into desired actions.

 

[UltimaGabe]

You can't intimidate people with Str. You can frighten them or threaten them, but the fine art of intimidation isn't for brutes.

Although I agree with you about not being able to intimidate people with Strength, I hate it when people say "the fine art of intimidation isn't for brutes". It IS for brutes. That's why Fighters and Barbarians have it as a class skill. Fighters and Barbarians take a much more direct course to intimidate (they don't try to blackmail or anything like that) but Charisma is STILL important. A Barbarian with a Charisma of 6 is just gonna be dumb looking, and a really dumb looking half-orc screaming his head off is just going to be weird, not intimidating. If he has high charisma, he's got much more of a presence- much more intimidating ability. Most low-charisma Barbarians, however, make up for their low presence with lots of ranks.

Basically, you should never be able to use Strength instead of Charisma on intimidate checks. The Barbarian used Charisma as his dump stat, and he should have to pay for it.