Iron DM 2009 - FINAL MATCH - it's over!

[phoamslinger]

judgement for Wik vs Brent_Nall is done.

if someone wants to link to it, I'd be appreciative. I'm at work and don't have time to figure out links right now.

edit. nm, figured it out.

 

[Nifft]

if someone wants to link to it, I'd be appreciative.

Done.

 

[Markn]

Wow...

phoamslinger's judgement seems...harsh. It's one things to rule in favor of the other contestant, its another to say some of the things that were said. Also concerning to me, is the strong biased opinion against 4e. I mean, Potion of Fiery Breath isn't an item in 4e, yet does exist in 3.5 IIRC.

I'm new to Iron DM, and considered joining in but decided to watch this go around (mostly due to time constraints), so maybe I am misinterpreting something (and if so would like to be corrected) but an ingrediant that favors one system over another (based on the fact it exists in one and not the other) doesn't seem entirely fair.

 

[Wicht]

Wow...

phoamslinger's judgement seems...harsh. It's one things to rule in favor of the other contestant, its another to say some of the things that were said. Also concerning to me, is the strong biased opinion against 4e. I mean, Potion of Fiery Breath isn't an item in 4e, yet does exist in 3.5 IIRC.

I'm new to Iron DM, and considered joining in but decided to watch this go around (mostly due to time constraints), so maybe I am misinterpreting something (and if so would like to be corrected) but an ingrediant that favors one system over another (based on the fact it exists in one and not the other) doesn't seem entirely fair.

Potions of fire breathing aren't in 4e?
I find that,... interesting.

Considering that this particular contest featured a 4e entry that beat out another 4e entry, I wouldn't worry too much about the DM bias. And as for ingredients, finding ways to fit them in is part of the challenge.

As for judge harshness, thems the breaks... though I would have liked to see a bit more commentary on Wik's entry. Wik is potentially left wondering whether the judge thinks he did things mostly right or whether the judge simply liked the other guy's less. But back to the judge, those drawing Phoamslinger now know a little of what to expect. It is after all called IronDM, not tinfoil DM

Not that I think fear of the judges should keep people from entering the next contest (or even signing up as an alternate for this one. Those afraid of constructive/semi-constructive criticism will not improve as quickly as those that can accept it.

 

[AntiStateQuixote]

As for judge harshness, thems the breaks... though I would have liked to see a bit more commentary on Wik's entry. Wik is potentially left wondering whether the judge thinks he did things mostly right or whether the judge simply liked the other guy's less.

As the recipient of the "harsh" judgment, I had exactly the same thought.

I liked Wik's entry. I also liked mine. If I had to judge them I'd probably give the win to Wik because I think he did a better job of incorporating the ingredients and of evoking a better feel for his story. I certainly would have spent more time praising Wik than tearing me down. But those are the breaks.

I'm going to run my entry as part of my ongoing campaign one of these days. Hopefully my players will enjoy it more than the judge seemed to think he would enjoy being in my games.

 

[Markn]

Brent_Nall,

Glad to hear you are ok with the judge's response.

As Wicht pointed out, accepting constructive criticism is key to improving ones writing and by no means am I trying to disrespect phoamslinger in any way other than perhaps to offer constructive critcism on focusing on positives as much as negatives as Wicht suggested. I found the review to be one sided.

At any rate, it doesn't scare me away from a contest like this. Passion, whether writing or judging IS important.

I look forward to the next judgement...

 

[phoamslinger]

Wow...

phoamslinger's judgement seems...harsh. It's one things to rule in favor of the other contestant, its another to say some of the things that were said. Also concerning to me, is the strong biased opinion against 4e. I mean, Potion of Fiery Breath isn't an item in 4e, yet does exist in 3.5 IIRC.

I'm new to Iron DM, and considered joining in but decided to watch this go around (mostly due to time constraints), so maybe I am misinterpreting something (and if so would like to be corrected) but an ingrediant that favors one system over another (based on the fact it exists in one and not the other) doesn't seem entirely fair.

hi Markn!

I'm suspecting that Brent_Nall didn't see my earlier post (#82, this thread), which I actually dropped onto this thread before I posted the ingredients for the match. if so, I'll apologize again for being mean.

however, back in the day, after running several tournaments, Nemmerle had high, high standards of what he expected, (including formatting!) and was fully capable of ripping folks up one side and down the other for entries he considered not up to par. in the first Iron DMs you had THREE HOURS to put out a finished product, not 48. I don't use Nemm as an excuse, but do offer him as an arguement that I definitely didn't set any precedents today.

re the 3E/4E thing. I'm looking for entries that tie a gordion's knot of ingredients, where nothing could be used other than the 6 items provided and they're all cross-connected at every single point throughout the scenario.

and btw, you won't find flaming skillets of the master chef in either edition (or in 2nd, or Advanced, or Basic, or in Chainmail). ingredients can come from anywhere, and creative usage of them is what I look for the hardest. even if Wik had called the potions Elixirs of Dragonbreath (the PC 4E name) throughout his entry, he still would have gotten a better call from my judging than Brent did because Wik used it creatively.

different judges judge things differently. I've seen people pull wild haikus into their entry, spin palindromes into chapter titles, transcribe song lyrics, or just be so evocative in their descriptive prose that you can feel the silence of the light snow drifting down as the adventurers are traveling to the monastery. I like out of the box. I also like originality. I think it makes the game more interesting.

sorry again if I went a bit overboard.

 

[Wik]

Well, Brent, I just want to say that I got pretty nervous when I saw your entry. I felt there were some total strokes of genius - for example, using the trolls gave the PCs a pretty big option. They could attack the trolls (with a weapon that gave them a huge advantage), or let things go easy with them. I was also pretty nervous because, well, my housewives weren't really strongly housewives.... their earlier marriages weren't really a plot element, but a background element. Looking back, I should have kept them married, and used their husbands a bit more.

So, I felt that you had me beat on most of the ingredients, with the possible exception of the Dry Well.

In any case, I thought it was a pretty close match, myself. Looking forward to next year - and your submission.

As for the 4e "controversy", I think it is a much easier adventure to write adventures for than 3e, for sure. I can understand Phoam's dislike of part of the system, but after running it for a year, I think it can actually make better adventures than 3e once the GM knows what s/he's doing. At least, it works that way for me.

My next submission, though, will probably be a 2e adventure. I almost went that way for this entry, in fact.

All that being said, does this mean I'm against Wulf next? I think after my previous comments about Wicht/Wik, Wulf is gonna want to beat me into the ground!

 

[Markn]

Phoamslinger,

Thanks for taking the time to respond. I have a better idea of where you are coming from.

 

[Pour]

Posted my entry.

Just wanted to wish my competitor good luck and hope you all enjoy.