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Iron DM 2012 -- R2 complete, Finals in Progress

Wicht

Hero
My Judgment:

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And so we come to the final round of judgments (barring a runoff for 3rd) in our Iron DM Tourney. Let us see what we have...

Deuce Traveler's Rouge Blues (RB) vs. Waylander the Slayer's King of Thieves (KT)

Both of our contestants turned in on time and under word count, though it seems fairly clear that one of the candidates rushed his work a bit. Using the same scoring system I've used throughout, both candidates get full marks for following these two simple rules.

Looking at Ingredient use (just the 6 main – I'll only consider the bonus material if its close), we begin with the seared seer, an evocative ingredient if I do say so myself. Though I first raised an eyebrow at the short description before the adventure, I found myself really liking the talking stone seer in Rouge Blues. The seared seer in King of Thieves though, not as much, as the NPC is not actually a seer and does little in the way of prophesying. I'm giving 2 out of 2 to RB but only 1 out of 2 to KT for the seer. The Desert Dessert is also used better in RB than KT. While the concept of an edible pile of sand is interesting, I am left with more questions after reading it, like how much sand must be eaten and how long does it take. 2 of 2 to RB and another 1 of 2 to KT for the dessert. The Knave's Nave, in RB is a little weak, in that its not clear how much it matters to the adventure, but its there and is worth 1 point and a half to me. The Knaves Nave in KT is ambiguous and seems at first to refer to the competition. I think that is unintentional and it is supposed to refer to the final location of the competition, but its confusing enough to only be worth 1 point. The Terraced Tarrasque is used far more evocatively in RB but I suspect that is mostly due to the lack of descriptive text in KT. A full 2 points to both here. The still stiletto in both is used well enough, though it plays a much more pivotal role in RB. But a full 2 points to both. Finally the party parity. Here is the only ingredient where I actually prefer KT to RB, as the text in RB was a bit confusing to me at first and overly complicated for a synopsis. That is not to say that KT exactly shone, but the balance between the two competing parties of demons does fit the use of the word. In the end, I deduct half a point from both for this one. Which gives us 8.5 points for KT but a 11 for RB.

As far as useability, I confess that RB grew on me the more I read of it. I think that it would make quite a challenge and could probably be used in a variety of settings. I am a bit of a traditionalist in liking to think there is only 1 Tarrasque, but thats a minor setting quibble. The tarrasque in KT was, I am assuming, dormant, and that might make for an interesting bit of background but it wasn't actually gone into, which I find dissapointing. The contest of KT is more limited in its appeal than the scenario of RB and that hurts its useability some. I also think the rather quirky, disjointed nature of the scenarios of KT hurts it as far as useability. On some levels it reminds me of some of the older modules, but not necessarily the good ones – the ones like The Forest Oracle. I think with some thought some of the defects could be overcome, but as it stands now, I'm giving KT a 4 out of 6 for useability and a full 6 to RB.

Finally with Style, I would prefer for RB to have been presented a bit more neatly, with subheadings, etc. Such things make reading it easier. With KT, there were far too many things mentioned in passing, without ever being fully expounded upon, like the Terraced Tarrasque. I had to conclude on my own that the landscape was in fact the Tarrasque, because it never actually seems to be mentioned. Likewise, the aforementioned eating of the sand is not adequately addressed as to how much need be eaten. Little details like that make it harder reading as one must back up and reread to see if something was missed. For style, I'm giving RB 5 points, but only 4 to KT.

I think it clear that RB was an entry with more thought put into it than KT (or at least more time). I think it clear that Rouge Blues is the better entry and the score agrees. Deuce Traveler is this judge's choice for Iron DM champion of 2012.

Rouge Blues
Follow the Rules 6/6
Ingredients 11/12
Useability 6/6
Style 5/6
Total: 28/30

King of Thieves
Follow the Rules 6/6
Ingredients 8.5/12
Useability 4/6
Style 4/6
Total: 22.5/30


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Wicht

Hero
Word games aside, I didn't expect that this set of ingredients would be as challenging as they seem to have been -- remove the descriptors and it looks fairly ordinary (seer/dessert/nave/tarrasque/stiletto/parity). But, the world looks a whole lot different from the judging seat.

I thought the same. I think the quirkiness of the presentation made them seem trickier than they needed to be.
 

Deuce Traveler

Adventurer
I have to admit that I'm not happy on how I ran with the party parity scenario. At first I thought of putting in a suggestion that there was an opposing party acting against the characters, with the suggestion that the DM create them to be equal in level and party composition. Such as as we've seen in the Order of the Stick. But I hate that schtick. So I decided to go with a word play on how the party could be equal in spacing from one another geographically and ran with it. The ether/tether connection must have been something subconscious. ;) So I got stuck on geography and distance when it came to parity and couldn't unlock my mind from such. Still it seemed clever when I started, but came out disjointed by the time I was finished. I decided to leave it as it was due to time constraints. Which highlights the good reasons why we have these time limits in the first place as it forces us to be quicker in wit.

I like how Waylander solved the dilemma and wish I ran with such an idea as I think it would have made a cleaner connection.

In hindsight I think we were wrapped around the descriptors and it is correct that we should have focused on the nouns.
 

Thanks judges. All your criticisms are very valid. Unfortunately, that entry was written in 45 minutes while watching a very patient three year old. A more important work crisis seriously impacted any time i could devote to the final round. A lot of the mini scenarios were total cop outs and very skeletal. I.e., the party parity was supposed to be a skill challenge, the seared seer was to add prophetic elements etc. However, there was no time on my part for consideration. Ultimately, my initial instinct and what I would have liked to have written was an Arbian Nights type scenario; but that would have required a lot more thought, plot, and crafting on my part, which I unfortunately did not have time to flesh out. I am actually pretty proud of what I did come up with considering everything.

I do disagree that the descriptors were unimportant; in iron dm, the descriptors tied to an ingredient are critical. Without the discriptors, in would be like eating sand without realizing it is sweet tapioca balls...
 

Deuce Traveler

Adventurer
I do disagree that the descriptors were unimportant; in iron dm, the descriptors tied to an ingredient are critical. Without the discriptors, in would be like eating sand without realizing it is sweet tapioca balls...

Mmmm... sweet tapioca balls...

I did realize you ran out of time, which is too bad as I would have liked to have seen some of the ideas you had fleshed out more. As I mentioned before, I did like the party parity idea you had. What were you going for with the nave? I found a definition that said a nave can also be considered the center of a hub, and I almost decided to press on that.
 

phoamslinger

Explorer
3rd Judgement....

[sblock]... ok, after reading the two entries and thinking about them for a couple of days, I pretty much knew how things were going to go.

judging the round two entry between Lwaxy and Waylander, I spent about four hours typing everything up. and I realize that the critiques are important, so I will offer just one.

kitchen sinks.

in your entry Waylander, you strung one ingredient in after another. they were all there, but they really didn't connect to each other very well. taking any one item and comparing it to another ingredient, the connnections were very tenuous at best. and the problem with this approach is that eventually you start getting a situation of "Why is he a seared seer? If we made him a ribald drunkard, would it change things much?" ...and the answer would be "No, it wouldn't." your entry reminded me of early early D&D modules, where you'd have 6 orcs in one room and a minotaur in the next, with no rhyme or reason from one to the other (S2 would be a good example of this).

I thought that Deuce Traveler did a better job of explaining things and connecting them to each other than did Waylander. why was the terrasque terraced? why was the rogue rouge? how did the two connect? in Kings they just seemed to be adjectives without connections or really reasons for being the way they were, where as in Blues, there was some background explaining and helping draw the connections.

which brings me to kitchen sinks. I remember an Iron DM a long while back that had something ridiculous like 20 ingredients in the final matchup. and darned if I wasn't going to use all 20. my entry did not win, btw. sometimes it's better to let the optional stuff go instead of trying to force everything together. just my $0.02.

...

ok, second critique point.
if the ingredient is axe, then you should use an axe in a way that procludes replacing it with a great sword or a rapier.

but if the ingredient is warped axe, not only should the above be true, but also why is it a warped axe.

Traveler's rogue was an efrit, therefore red, therefore rouge.
Waylander's rogues were rouged, well, just because it was cool window dressing.

there were several other instances of this in comparing the two entries, which should be easy to spot.

Waylander, if you had stuck with just the basic six ingredients and linked all six firmly together, like you did in your round two entry, it would have been a much better entry. I suppose the lesson should be, 45 minutes just doesn't cut it, especially with a tough list of ingredients.

checking the other judges, it would appear it's 3/3 for Deuce Traveler.

Congrats DT on the win![/sblock]
 

Deuce Traveler

Adventurer
Thank you judges, and thanks to you, [MENTION=1830]Waylander the Slayer[/MENTION]

Waylander, I'm sorry that you ran out of time as you did have some good ideas out there that would have been solid if fleshed out. Hopefully you'll compete again.
 

Wicht

Hero
Going through the thread and giving XP to our players, I am told I must spread around the points before giving any more to our two finalists. So let me say - Thanks to both of you for playing and providing some very good entries. I'll be looking forward to seeing your future involvement. And I may see if I can't compete in the next go around.
 

Radiating Gnome

Adventurer
I'll add my own congratultions to Deuce Traveler, and thanks to all the players. And a special thanks to Phoamy for stepping in to help judge when we suddenly found ourselves short one.

This has been a tough session, for all the wrong reasons. I can't thank everyone enough for bearing with us as we muddled through.

-rg
 

Radiating Gnome

Adventurer
Thanks judges. All your criticisms are very valid. Unfortunately, that entry was written in 45 minutes while watching a very patient three year old.

Sorry that you had time problems -- I always hate it when we have entries submitted that the contestant doesn't feel like he's done everything he possibly could do -- getting beat by time is a drag. But that's part of it, I guess.


I do disagree that the descriptors were unimportant; in iron dm, the descriptors tied to an ingredient are critical. Without the discriptors, in would be like eating sand without realizing it is sweet tapioca balls...

I think the descriptors are important, don't get me wrong. I was just surprised that they created as much trouble as it appeared that they did. The good thing, from where I'm sitting as a judge, is that practically anything we come up with as judges is "fair", no matter how easy or infernal the set of ingredients, because we are just as kind or mean to each contestante equally. At least in theory.

-rg
 

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