Iron Heroes...what's your opinion?

[Dr. Strangemonkey]

Now I really love the combat mechanics. I haven´t played IH yet, but am preparing a one shot for my Players.
What I do not like is the "unfinished" or "sloppy work" feeling the magic system has.
This is the first time I feel like that with a Malhavoc product.
And this leaves me disappointed, because I am used to the high Malhavoc standards.

What I do not understand: Every mechanic was playtested. The magic system too. Did the playtesters not point out, that it was flawed? And if they did, why was it incorporated?

This is my gripe. Not the great new IH system (except magic of course) itself.

What's interesting to me is how much of the playtesting commentary on the arcanist seems positive. I suspect the features showed up better then flaws when it was in development.

 

[wizofice]

While I wouldn't deny there are some very loyal Malhavoc fans (perhaps in part because of the smaller, get-to-know-everyone online community over there), the people who post the most over there with regards to Iron Heroes aren't at all the usual suspects. I think IH is drawing a different crowd.

 

[Yuan-Ti]

Never have I seen a man more in need of HERO.

Or Grim Tales, the most flexible class system for d20 to date.

 

[Malachias Invictus]

Essentially, he didn't have the time to devote to it to get it to the point he was happy with it, as you'll read in our exclusive interview with him this Thursday at the Iron-League (shameless plug).

I'll be there. I have chatted with him on the boards a bit, but I am looking forward to reading a comprehensive interview.

 

[JohnSnow]

While I wouldn't deny there are some very loyal Malhavoc fans (perhaps in part because of the smaller, get-to-know-everyone online community over there), the people who post the most over there with regards to Iron Heroes aren't at all the usual suspects. I think IH is drawing a different crowd.

Just to stress this point...I'm certainly part of that "different crowd." I'm also one of the major Iron Heroes advocates/fans both here and on the ezboard site. I confess to having bought two previous Malhavoc products, both for their changes to magic - as I loathe the default D&D magic system and always have. I have the Book of Eldritch Might containing the variant sorcerer and bard in .pdf format. I also bought (again, mostly for its magic system) Arcana Unearthed. Both were, IMO, okay, but I was disappointed, and began to suspect that Monte and I had very different "goals" for our games. I certainly disagreed with his critiques of the changes that were made to 3e magic (particularly "buff" spell durations). I had not purchased another Malhavoc product SINCE.

So I'm far from being a Malhavoc "fanboy." Then I heard about Iron Heroes (back when it was still known as Iron Lore). I was intrigued. Then I started reading about it, and reading Mike Mearls' comments about it. And I became more intrigued. After becoming convinced it would do what I wanted done (which is allow me to play D&D without ubiquitous magic items), I pre-ordered the book through Amazon, and I bought the pdf when it was released on drivethrurpg.

I have NOT been disappointed. Well, except with the magic system not living up to the rest of this otherwise excellent product. I'd really like to see what Mike's ideal of the Iron Heroes magic system is. But I have hope that those of us who want to will be able to work with him and Malhavoc to help something very similar see the light of day. But I digress...

As far as what it's "trying to be," Mike commented in his design diaries that the creation of Iron Heroes was inspired by his somewhat garbled understanding of Fritz Leiber's Fafhrd & Grey Mouser stories based on reading the Nehwon Mythos chapter in the 1st Edition Deities & Demigods when he was 10. Now, I admit I'm a little older than Mike, but I understood that feel VERY well as I got the same one myself.

So what is Iron Heroes? It's Sword & Sorcery fiction or D&D without the reliable magic (especially magic items). In Iron Heroes, the stuff you find at the Bazaar of the Bizarre really is...bizarre. Basically, it's truer to D&D's fantasy, legendary, and mythical roots than the basic game is.

At least, that's how I see it.

 

[Tharen the Damned]

What's interesting to me is how much of the playtesting commentary on the arcanist seems positive. I suspect the features showed up better then flaws when it was in development.

Hmm,

I have yet to try out the Arcanist in actual play. I only read the rules and comments ond this and Montes boards.

Maybe the Arcanist is a blast in actual play. I will have to see this for myself.

 

[mhacdebhandia]

Or Grim Tales, the most flexible class system for d20 to date.

I can't speak to that, since I haven't looked at any "rules light" OGL games.

I tend to think that you shouldn't take half measures, though. I'm sure Grim Tales is a fun game for those who play it, but if my problems with D&D were its class-level system, I'd just go straight to a point-buy system, do not pass Go, do not collect $200.

 

[Malachias Invictus]

I can't speak to that, since I haven't looked at any "rules light" OGL games.

I tend to think that you shouldn't take half measures, though. I'm sure Grim Tales is a fun game for those who play it, but if my problems with D&D were its class-level system, I'd just go straight to a point-buy system, do not pass Go, do not collect $200.

Seconded.

 

[GlassJaw]

I can't speak to that, since I haven't looked at any "rules light" OGL games.

I tend to think that you shouldn't take half measures, though. I'm sure Grim Tales is a fun game for those who play it, but if my problems with D&D were its class-level system, I'd just go straight to a point-buy system, do not pass Go, do not collect $200.

Since when is Grim Tales "rules light"? You would probably be quite happy with GT if you like the class-level system actually since it gives you many more options within that system as compared to standard D&D.

Regardless, rules-light it's not.

 

[mhacdebhandia]

Since when is Grim Tales "rules light"?

Oh, I'm sorry. I just figured that since everybody who talks about it calls it a simpler, lighter system than D&D, it must be.

Regardless, my point remains: People who describe the class-level acquisition of powers as a problem should probably just be playing a point-buy game. There are plenty of excellent choices out there.