Iron Heroes...what's your opinion?

[melon-neko]

Well, I have not played IH and i probably never will. Not for lack of wanting to, just how things turn out. I liked alot about IH and as far as i know, all it was meant to deliver was a bunch of kick ass fighters that continue to kick ass without a plethora of magic artifacts. I did that wonderfully. I do not, however, think it makes for a good campaign. The main reason is because all the classes have very few options. I prefer many options, i know others don't. I don't like D&D classes either. I do think it is very good for short term adventures and for those games where you play kinda like a miniature wargame =) The thing i like the least, is tokens. They are an interesting idea, but until everyone memorizes how you get them and what they do it's going to slow down combat alot. If its with a hardcore group that doesn't mind memorizing all that, it's fine. If its with a more 'part time gamer' group, it would be difficult.

I have not read conan or grim tales so i cannot comment on how it compares.

I guess i am with the group of "i think it is good for what it does, but what it does is not really what i want"

Melon-neko

 

[GlassJaw]

Multiple attacker bonus?! A Conan RPG should have a lone wolf bonus, if anything, since a true warrior relies on the strength and speed of his sword arm, not having lots of friends.

The bad guys can benefit from the multiple attacker bonuses as well.

And a vitality system is inappropriate when Conan emerges from his fights wounded all the time.

Conan doesn't use the VP/Wp system. It uses the standard hp system with a brutal MDS.

The Conan book rules. I think it's my favorite d20 book next to Grim Tales.

 

[Malachias Invictus]

I liked alot about IH and as far as i know, all it was meant to deliver was a bunch of kick ass fighters that continue to kick ass without a plethora of magic artifacts. I did that wonderfully. I do not, however, think it makes for a good campaign. The main reason is because all the classes have very few options. I prefer many options, i know others don't. I don't like D&D classes either.

Do you have a class-based system that *does* give enough options? Compared to D&D, IH gives a *ton* of character options, and without Prestige Class/Feat bloat. That is one of the things I really liked about it.

 

[ThirdWizard]

Pages 153-155 detail a sample setting.

Somewhat. We're talking very very bare bones, though. Two people playing IH could have very dissimilar world. Like I said, I don't care. I'm dropping all that First and other stuff. No Ghostlands either. It's been a while since I homebrewed.



On options: It gives more options than D&D. Skill groups, cross class skills are gone, more feats, traits, free multiclassing... it goes on. Options galore in this game. You want to be able to swing a sword and woo a damsel in distress? No problem. And on the list goes. As far as options go, IH is great.

 

[Dragonblade]

I am open to any ideas about how to implement this with Elements of Magic.

I must admit that I don't have Elements of Magic, so I'm not familiar with it all. I have heard good things though.

What I had in mind was a mana token pool similar to the how the Archer class has his Aim token pool. For example:

-------
An Arcanist has a base mana token pool equal to his Int, Wis, or Cha bonus, whichever is higher. This base mana token pool auto replenishes once per round as a free action on the Arcanist's turn.

The Arcanist can gather additional mana from the ambient mana around him. He can gather X mana tokens (some level dependant number) by concentrating as a Move action. He can gather X+2 as a standard action, and X + 5 as a full round action.

He can use these mana tokens to cast spells. The base mana token cost to cast a spell is the spell DC/2 (round up). An Arcanist can decrease the DC by 1 per additional token spent. If the Arcanist does not have enough tokens, he can try to cast the spell anyway and the DC increases by 1 for every token he is short.
----

I just threw that together, so it may or may be balanced. But that is the sort of system I really wanted to see. As soon as I read IH cover to cover, I loaned it out to a friend, so I no longer have it in my possession to check my house ruled mana token system. But as soon as I get my book back, I'll take the system I just came up with and play around with it to make sure its balanced.

Let me know what you all think.

 

[melon-neko]

Do you have a class-based system that *does* give enough options? Compared to D&D, IH gives a *ton* of character options, and without Prestige Class/Feat bloat. That is one of the things I really liked about it.

No, i don't think i have ever seen a class based system that gives enough options
And i agree, i think that compared to D&D, IH classes are better and the mastery tree's were really quite nice. However, no matter how many options you have, the class abilities force you into roles, so you choose your class based on what you want to do. Which is what its supposed to do i guess. You don't want an Armiger that doesn't put all his effort into his armor, that would be silly.

I suppose it comes down to, i would prefer to look at feats and decide how my character can do what i want, then have to look at feats and 8 different class abilities. Not that i didn't make characters for IH already just to see how they work out =)

I admit, that i will never be satisfied, i am not even satisfied with the stuff *I* write -_- I absolutely HATE the amount of prestige classes around, but i do understand why they exist.


Sorry if my post lacks coherancy. So does my brain.

Melon-neko

 

[med stud]

I love it so far! First of all the options make it possible to make the PC you want, more or less; I toyed around with Man-at-Arms builds and came up with a crusader, an Indiana Jones-type and a frontier warrior. The feats, stunts and combat challenges mean that you put the tactical dimension of combats in the hands of everyone in the party. IME regular D&D combat tactics often depend very heavily on casters and magic items. This is the first version of a D&D-like game that actually inspires tactics in all players that I have found.

My favourite thing about IH, though, I found out when creating a Weapon Master at lvl 20. After creating a good to go lvl 20 character in about 15 minutes I realized that he had lots of options and were really dangerous with his sword. Someone could see the Weapon master cutting down frost giants like wheat with his famous sword, but if they stole the sword from the Weapon master they would see that it was just a regular sword.

The sword was not dangerous because it's +4 Keen Vorpal with Shocking burst and Flame burst but because it has a bad ass wielder. I absolutely love that part.

 

[Azgulor]

Quite frankly, it sounds to me that IH does Conan better than the Conan RPG does. Multiple attacker bonus?! A Conan RPG should have a lone wolf bonus, if anything, since a true warrior relies on the strength and speed of his sword arm, not having lots of friends. And a vitality system is inappropriate when Conan emerges from his fights wounded all the time.

The classses in Iron Heroes also tend to strongly suggest certain encounter structures. Beserkers and Armigers thrive on swarms of guys. Archers, weapon masters, and executioners like few tough guys. Hunters and Archers probably want some terrain they can exploit. Each class is like a vote towards certain encounter types.

Since I wholeheartedly disagree that IH does Conan better than Conan RPG, I'm forced to weigh in - and with one of the IH elements that was beaten to death a few months ago.

When was the last time Conan fired arrows into a tree to make an impromptu ladder in order to lay an ambush?

IH is HIGH FANTASY WITHOUT MAGIC ITEMS (per Mearls, btw) - hence the ability to handle equivalent D&D CR encounters. Conan is Swords-n-Sorcery. You can conceivably hammer either system to suit the other genre, but it's not their default styles of play.

Azgulor

 

[HeapThaumaturgist]

Not to get into the arguments with the IH fans, but I'll just say that I saw it and found it wanting in several places.

I just grabbed the Shackled City AP and a Dungeon sub so my gaming dollar was tapped out, so I didn't pick it up.

Going to mine it for a few things, though. I RE-he-heally like some things in IH, but it just wasn't full enough to be a shaking-handed must-have. I'm glad alot of people like it, but it's like C&C, I think. When C&C came out, this part of the messageboards had about seven threads at a run going full out with "dude, C&C is the best EVAR". It filled some peoples' needs. IH is doing the same thing. GT did the same for some people when it came out.

I'm a picky picky bastage, so I've got crap strapped together from here to next week.

--fje

 

[Dr. Strangemonkey]

I wouldn't go so far to say you are either with Monte or you're against him, but I think most people will admit there is a distinctive style throughout most of the Malhavoc products. Now I know Monte didn't write IH but I think the style comes through.

In many ways I'd say I've noticed the opposite. I'd say the difference in style is most likely a difference in critical style more than anything else. That may cross-over into other things, but that certainly seems to be the most appropos given the distinctions between the messages on these boards.

RPG.net is having a rather different conversation on this subject from what I've seen.