Iron Man 2, Thor announced for 2010

[Mistwell]

How about Batman Begins? Pretty much unknowns all around. Christian Bale's only claim to fame up until that point was in American Psycho.

Ummm....no.

It was his breakout blockbuster role, but not his "breaking out of being an unknown" role. He had done that years ago.

 

[Mouseferatu]

To be honest, I'm not certain he'd be the best choice either, but as far as iconic Captain America villains go, his Rogues Gallery isn't exactly the most interesting or colorful.

Well, there's always Crossbones. He's more a henchman than a main villain, but he could always provide the muscle for someone else who's a good villain but not a physical match.

I actually like the idea of using the Two Zemos--one in WWII, one today.

 

[Cthulhudrew]

Well, there's always Crossbones. He's more a henchman than a main villain, but he could always provide the muscle for someone else who's a good villain but not a physical match.

That's true. Can't believe I'd forgotten Crossbones (though, like you said, he's really a henchman and not a mastermind.)

I actually like the idea of using the Two Zemos--one in WWII, one today.

Yeah, the more I think of it, the more I think it could work. Modify their history somewhat, so that Cap actually kills Heinrich during WWII (maybe Heinrich dies and sets off the rocket with Bucky as his dying act), and then you could have Helmut as the present day villain. That way you've got Cap as Man Out of Time going on in opposition to Helmut as Man of the Present, and you've also got the parallels of Cap losing his surrogate "son" Bucky (due to Heinrich) and Helmut losing his father (due to Cap).

Just so long as they leave Helmut alive (but scarred) at the end, and don't kill him off like so many good villains do in the movies. (And then Helmut can lead the Masters of Evil in an Avengers movie based on the Siege of Avengers Mansion storyline.)

 

[Mouseferatu]

Yeah, the more I think of it, the more I think it could work. Modify their history somewhat, so that Cap actually kills Heinrich during WWII (maybe Heinrich dies and sets off the rocket with Bucky as his dying act), and then you could have Helmut as the present day villain. That way you've got Cap as Man Out of Time going on in opposition to Helmut as Man of the Present, and you've also got the parallels of Cap losing his surrogate "son" Bucky (due to Heinrich) and Helmut losing his father (due to Cap).

I dunno. I much prefer the Ultimates version of Bucky, where he's basically an "embedded reporter" (read: Allied propaganda), as opposed to a costumed sidekick, and where he lives to the modern day.

But I do like the "Cap kills one Zemo and then faces off against the second."

 

[Cthulhudrew]

I dunno. I much prefer the Ultimates version of Bucky, where he's basically an "embedded reporter" (read: Allied propaganda), as opposed to a costumed sidekick, and where he lives to the modern day.

Not that familiar with the Ultimates, myself. I stopped reading anything Ultimate fairly early on, when I grew to dislike Bendis' Spider-Man and couldn't stand Millar's X-Men (his characters had no voices- they were, to my reading, all interchangeable ciphers.)

 

[Mouseferatu]

Not that familiar with the Ultimates, myself. I stopped reading anything Ultimate fairly early on, when I grew to dislike Bendis' Spider-Man and couldn't stand Millar's X-Men (his characters had no voices- they were, to my reading, all interchangeable ciphers.)

Heh. I'm only a fan of the Ultimates, and then only the first two series. (The third took a nosedive like you wouldn't believe.) And that's partly because they lacked a lot--not all, but a lot--of the goofiness that pervades comic books in general.

For instance, the Ultimates version of Captain America is an actual soldier, not a boy scout. He's still a good guy overall, he's still got the whole "All America" thing going, and he's still got the old-fashioned sense of right and wrong. But he's a much more ruthless combatant, and a lot quicker to solve problems with fists than words--basically, exactly what you'd expect from a so-called Super Soldier.

My favorite Ultimates version is Thor, though. As described above, most people assume he's just a crazy guy with super powers and his heart in the right place, who thinks he's the god of thunder. He's also a rabid environmentalist to the point of almost being hippy-esque, and politically active. Which doesn't mean he won't cave in your skull and call down the lightning on your twitching corpse if need be. I actually hope they not only take that approach in the Thor movie, but leave the question at least vaguely hazy.

I dunno. Overall, I just thought the Ultimates really presented the characters in a more real-world paradigm than their original versions. (Note I said "more real world," not just "real world." There's still plenty of comic bookiness.)

 

[Cthulhudrew]

Heh. I'm only a fan of the Ultimates, and then only the first two series. (The third took a nosedive like you wouldn't believe.)

That's what I've heard, actually.

My favorite Ultimates version is Thor, though. As described above, most people assume he's just a crazy guy with super powers and his heart in the right place, who thinks he's the god of thunder. He's also a rabid environmentalist to the point of almost being hippy-esque, and politically active.

That take on Thor is actually one of few interesting things I've read about Ultimates. From what I understand, the end of vol. 2 pretty definitively put this to rest, but I agree that it would be a cool angle to take with the character as opposed to the straight out Asgardian approach of the mainstream MU.

Based on Iron Man the Movie, it seems to me they're probably going to go a more Ultimates route with the Avengers than not, so I'm curious to see how that develops. I'm even more curious to see what they do with Ant-Man, since he's one of the goofier elements of the comics (in terms of the realism you're talking about). Just the name itself doesn't quite lend itself to a moviegoing public, I'd think. I wouldn't be surprised if they decided to go a more comedic route with the character- based on the most recent Ant-Man- and have him be the comic relief of the Avengers team.

(Haven't read the recent Ant-Man series- not a fan of Kirkman's writing- but I could see where they might decide to go that route.)

 

[Mouseferatu]

That's what I've heard, actually.

Believe it. I'm not exaggerating when I say that it honestly reads like the writers said "You know what would be cool? Let's take everything that makes the Ultimates different from the original, more comic, goofier, and frankly tired version of the Avengers, and get rid of it in the silliest way possible."

From what I understand, the end of vol. 2 pretty definitively put this to rest, but I agree that it would be a cool angle to take with the character as opposed to the straight out Asgardian approach of the mainstream MU.

Yep. I really wish they hadn't, honestly. I liked the ambiguity being part of the character.

Based on Iron Man the Movie, it seems to me they're probably going to go a more Ultimates route with the Avengers than not, so I'm curious to see how that develops.

Well, only sort of. The character of

Spoiler

Nick Fury, the SHIELD organization, and the fact that the public knows Stark is Iron Man

are all straight out of the Ultimates. But the character origin and the suit are very original character, and the personality, while a mixture of the two, leans more toward the original. (Or at least, as he's portrayed in the Ultimates. I have no idea how he's portrayed in Ultimate Iron Man. I heard about the "brain thing," and promptly decided to stay as far from UIM as possible.)

Seems to me like they're taking (what they consider) the coolest elements of both. Which I'm fine with.

I'm even more curious to see what they do with Ant-Man, since he's one of the goofier elements of the comics (in terms of the realism you're talking about). Just the name itself doesn't quite lend itself to a moviegoing public, I'd think.

Yeah, I'm curious, too. In the Ultimates, he begins as Giant Man, not becoming Ant Man until later.

Honestly, I'm not sure a movie version of the Avengers really needs two shrinking heroes, so I kinda hope they do find something different to do with him. (Assuming they're keeping Wasp around, of course.)

 

[Mouseferatu]

I do have to add, though, that I think it's amusing that we're speaking of a genre and a medium where the version of WWII with aliens helping the Nazis build super-weapons is the less comic-bookish of the two realities.

 

[HeavenShallBurn]

Three words: too many villains.

QFT, pick one primary enemy and do them well. Loki would probably be most iconic for Thor to be dealing with. However it might be interesting to see a relative unknown in the spot.