Is 4e bringing new players to the game?

[Dragonblade]

All 3 of my gaming groups now play 4e exclusively. Thats about 10 people. One guy left over 4e, but another guy who hadn't played since 2e joined up. So its a wash.

Probably about half of us have bought all the WotC player focused books (PHB, Martial Power, AV) and a couple of us buy everything WotC releases. About half of us have DDI subscriptions as well.

My FLGS has relegated their remaining 3e stock and few token Pathfinder books to a small shelf and they say it hardly sells at all. 4e sales have been very good for them.

 

[darjr]

One of the RPGA groups last week and last night put out a need for more GM's. The last time I was at that game the store was packed to the gills. I'm not sure where they'll put the extra tables, but they have the demand.

The monthly event I run in the next town over started at a game day there, and I had to turn people away. I'm afraid of publicly posting the games because I'm the only DM. Though a few in the regular group have said they would step up and DM.

There is a FLGS here that has a burgeoning 3.5 group, they have new players as well, and are I think pretty full with people waiting to get in. I don't know how many are new, but I'll bet some are.

In fact I'd be willing to bet that 3.5 still having a strong presence around here and new gamers comming in is a good thing for keeping people playing. Those that don't find 4e to their liking can find a 3.5 group. In my book, that is all good.

 

[Nymrohd]

I think it is fair to say that the overall success of an RPG is very hard to judge locally unless you are in a place with a very large RPG community. A lot of people will just conform with what type of games are locally available out of necessity. I mean I personally prefer 4E and 2E but if all people played was 3.5, I'd play that as well.

 

[RefinedBean]

Since the hobby in general feeds off of D&D's table scraps, anything that's bad for D&D is bad for the hobby. I've had two guys in my group abandon gaming since 4e came out, one a lifelong vet and the other a relative newcomer. 4e was basically the straw that broke the camel's back.

I'm sorry, what?

D&D is a large part of the gaming industry, but to say that the hobby "feeds off of D&D's table scraps" is a bit much. White Wolf would probably take issue with that, I imagine.

And as for your friends, all I can say is I'm speechless.

 

[Felon]

I'm sorry, what?

D&D is a large part of the gaming industry, but to say that the hobby "feeds off of D&D's table scraps" is a bit much. White Wolf would probably take issue with that, I imagine.

And as for your friends, all I can say is I'm speechless.

I'm not saying anything that industry insiders like Ryan Dancey haven't said themselves in public forums. I don't know why you're surprised. D&D's popularity and sales handily eclipse every other RPG. White Wolf is in second place, but it's a distant second.

As to my friends, I have no idea why you're gobsmacked. Maybe you can't imagine having other things to do with your free time (and I don't begrudge you that), but understand that's not a universal situation. For my friends, D&D was their gateway game. It didn't seem to them to be any improvement, and in fact a lot of stuff they liked was scrapped. To shell out cash for new books as well as the interest to learn a bunch of new rules, it's not good enough to argue that 4e's no worse than other editions of D&D (a fact that many pro-4e pundits in this forum would do well to note). Rather, 4e has to show that's an overall improvement, and for many that's not the case.

 

[RefinedBean]

I'm not saying anything that industry insiders like Ryan Dancey haven't said themselves in public forums. I don't know why you're surprised. D&D's popularity and sales handily eclipse every other RPG. White Wolf is in second place, but it's a distant second.

Could you cite on this? I'd be interested to see what Mr. Dancey and others have to say. And distant second doesn't mean all that much. Look at Apple and Microsoft, for example.

As to my friends, I have no idea why you're gobsmacked. Maybe you can't imagine having other things to do with your free time (and I don't begrudge you that), but understand that's not a universal situation. For my friends, D&D was their gateway game. It didn't seem to them to be any improvement, and in fact a lot of stuff they liked was scrapped. To shell out cash for new books as well as the interest to learn a bunch of new rules, it's not good enough to argue that 4e's no worse than other editions of D&D (a fact that many pro-4e pundits in this forum would do well to note). Rather, 4e has to show that's an overall improvement, and for many that's not the case.

I certainly understand people finding something else to do with their time. I was more surprised that the release of a single game system would drive someone away from the hobby. That seems kind of ludicrous to me. However, your friends have their own motivations for leaving the hobby, and I can respect that.

 

[Gothmog]

Around here, 4e is still selling very well and brining in a lot of new players. Personally, in the three groups I'm in, we have 5 new players to 4e D&D. Two of them had never gamed before, two had tried 3.x a few years ago and hated it but love 4e now (the SOs of two of my players), and one of them came back to gaming after taking a break during the 3e years.

Also, one of the players in one of my 4e groups works at the FLGS here. When 4e came out, he wondered if 4e was bringing in new gamers as well, and has kept an unofficial tally whenever he rings up someone buying 4e books. So far from his data, it looks like about 30% of the 4e sales are to new players- mostly young males between 15-22 (many who say they saw a banner ad on a non-tabletop RPG website like for Warcraft, Warhammer Online, etc), adult males over 35 who usually say they are coming back to gaming after a hiatus, and roughly 12% of the people buying 4e are women! The FLGS orders about 20 new PHBs per month, and usually sells them all, and the other core books move 6-10 copies per month. Other big sellers so far have been Martial Power (10 or so per month), Adventurer's Vault (7 per month), and Open Grave (no per month figures yet, but they have sold 20+ of them). In addition, the Dungeon Tile sets sell like mad. In contrast, 3.x and Pathfinder sales are dead around here- they order 4 copies of each new Pathfinder product (2 of the 4 are special standing orders) and manage to sell all 4 copies in about two months. Consider I'm in a town of roughly 180,000 people, and there is a B&N, Borders, and two other game stores (but with no "F" in their name), and I hear from another buddy who works at B&N that their kiosk of D&D 4e stuff moves pretty quickly (requiring restocking most books every other month). Its all anecdotal (which is all any of us have of course), but so far it looks great for the future of 4e around here!

 

[Vayden]

*shrug* My core group and I steadily bring new people into gaming. 6 people during the 5 years we played 3.x and other games, 3 in the year that we've been playing 4e. We're all playing 4e at the moment, and the new players definitely like the simplicity, but I can't say that either edition is particularly "drawing in new players" - we just keep our ears to the ground for geeky types and bring them in for their first taste whenever we can. Heck, 2 of the new people are in 2 games a week now.

 

[gamersgambit]

Open Grave, Draconomicon, and Manual of the Planes didn't sell well compared to the books that are player-oriented...but that's a given. Basically, any book that players want/need (PHB, Martial Power, FRPG) will sell a lot more than any book that only DMs need (Open Grave, Draconomicon, Manual of the Planes), with the "iffy" books in the middle (Adventurer's Vault).

I am really looking forward to the minis and the power cards. Introducing a line of minis with the power card in them for players to buy was brilliant; and limiting randomness in the monster minis was also brilliant.

4E D&D is a remarkable product and it's marketed well.

 

[Obryn]

Wow - look at that drop-off between the sales of the PHB and Adventurer's Vault.

Why do you think that is?

Going off a hunch, I'd say that's pretty damn good.

If you're selling 50% as many supplements as PHBs, I'd think that's a success.

Speaking for my own table, several of my players bought the 4e books. Basically, all the ones that normally do. One got a DDI subscription, too.

-O