D&D 5E Is 5e really that different?

[teitan]

To be even more fair, natural healing in 1e and 2e was quite slow.

yeah but healing potions and scrolls were at market saturation

 

[teitan]

No it didn’t. You could take days to heal HP. Level drain had to be fixed by a cleric. Etc etc. most issues stuck with you for days/weeks or until you got them magically fixed.

I was making a joke you obviously missed that I meant the spell... SLEEP.

 

[jtylerk]

I just got into 5e a few months ago (mostly gamed with AD&D 1e, B/X back in the day)--I was pleasantly surprised by it, I find it very versatile, as simple or complex as a group would wish to make it. I don't see what could be upsetting about the system. Maybe folks who were into the power builds in 3.x/Pathfinder wouldn't like the bounded accuracy of 5e?
edit--have seen self styled grognards gripe about 5e in other forums, but I wonder if they ever really looked at 5e?

 

[Oofta]

I just got into 5e a few months ago (mostly gamed with AD&D 1e, B/X back in the day)--I was pleasantly surprised by it, I find it very versatile, as simple or complex as a group would wish to make it. I don't see what could be upsetting about the system. Maybe folks who were into the power builds in 3.x/Pathfinder wouldn't like the bounded accuracy of 5e?
edit--have seen self styled grognards gripe about 5e in other forums, but I wonder if they ever really looked at 5e?

I'm glad you're enjoying it, it's my favorite edition so far. I do think some of the most vocal critics do it just because they enjoy trolling, some bloggers do it to get eyeballs, but it's not 100%. People like what they like. I wouldn't go on a forum about some product I don't care about to trash talk it, but it takes all kinds.

 

[Sacrosanct]

I just got into 5e a few months ago (mostly gamed with AD&D 1e, B/X back in the day)--I was pleasantly surprised by it, I find it very versatile, as simple or complex as a group would wish to make it. I don't see what could be upsetting about the system. Maybe folks who were into the power builds in 3.x/Pathfinder wouldn't like the bounded accuracy of 5e?
edit--have seen self styled grognards gripe about 5e in other forums, but I wonder if they ever really looked at 5e?

I'm glad you're enjoying it, it's my favorite edition so far. I do think some of the most vocal critics do it just because they enjoy trolling, some bloggers do it to get eyeballs, but it's not 100%. People like what they like. I wouldn't go on a forum about some product I don't care about to trash talk it, but it takes all kinds.

I would posit that 90% of the criticism I see about 5e now has nothing to do with mechanics any longer, but with how "WotC is ruining D&D by being woke". In the early days there were criticisms about mechanics, and there are still a few of those going around, but no one is really upset about 5e mechanically anymore. I think we can all agree that those complaining about the increased inclusivity don't have much of a valid argument anyway. So really, 5e isn't upsetting in a general sense. For me, it's my second favorite after AD&D.

No, I'm pretty sure this was just a troll post. Looking at the OP, and how they did a drive by and haven't responded or answered questions, and were recently busted by mods for being deceptive, and knowing how the OP had made a lot of commentary about 5e over the past few years (one of those complaining about the wokeness), and I think it's pretty clear what the intent of the thread was.

 

[Ovinomancer]

I would posit that 90% of the criticism I see about 5e now has nothing to do with mechanics any longer, but with how "WotC is ruining D&D by being woke". In the early days there were criticisms about mechanics, and there are still a few of those going around, but no one is really upset about 5e mechanically anymore. I think we can all agree that those complaining about the increased inclusivity don't have much of a valid argument anyway. So really, 5e isn't upsetting in a general sense. For me, it's my second favorite after AD&D.

No, I'm pretty sure this was just a troll post. Looking at the OP, and how they did a drive by and haven't responded or answered questions, and were recently busted by mods for being deceptive, and knowing how the OP had made a lot of commentary about 5e over the past few years (one of those complaining about the wokeness), and I think it's pretty clear what the intent of the thread was.

I'm still upset about lots of things mechanically in 5e. But they've been discussed, and I've gotten to a point where I've either addressed them, accepted them (grudgingly) as just what D&D is right now, or have elected to stop complaining about them (largely because you most often get told to shut up and like it anyway).

The woke bits are new, so of course current events dominate current discussions! Especially when they touch on the culture war.

 

[Sacrosanct]

I'm still upset about lots of things mechanically in 5e. But they've been discussed, and I've gotten to a point where I've either addressed them, accepted them (grudgingly) as just what D&D is right now, or have elected to stop complaining about them (largely because you most often get told to shut up and like it anyway).

The woke bits are new, so of course current events dominate current discussions! Especially when they touch on the culture war.

Yeah, and I'm not saying there aren't valid criticisms of 5e. If you count the playtest, the game has been out almost a decade now. Most of those complaints have been addressed ad nauseum, like you said. Most of the complaints I see about it recently are about the inclusivity push Wotc has been doing. Either way, it's nothing like what OP was trying to paint it as.

 

[Ovinomancer]

Yeah, and I'm not saying there aren't valid criticisms of 5e. If you count the playtest, the game has been out almost a decade now. Most of those complaints have been addressed ad nauseum, like you said. Most of the complaints I see about it recently are about the inclusivity push Wotc has been doing. Either way, it's nothing like what OP was trying to paint it as.

For sure, OP is clearly attempting to troll and/or find like minds.

 

[Neonchameleon]

It's 2E without THAC0.

Without THAC0, without Vancian Casting, without XP caps, without different XP tracks, without the weird saving throws (which were actually good, but I digress), without an open ended list of non-weapon proficiencies, without paladins falling, without a tsunami of splat books, without egregiously obnoxious amounts of fluff on monsters that was designed to be read on the throne rather than used in play, without it being easy to die, without level drain, without a bend bars/lift gates percentage, and far far more.

What it is is a mix of almost all D&D editions run through a filter of "what did people who didn't like this edition not like?" and removing that. It's D&D with the rough edges knocked off.

 

[Scruffy nerf herder]

The last new version I learned to run was 4e. I wasn't bad, thought I still prefer earlier editions. Why does 5e make so many people upset?

Probably the main reason is that there's a cultural clash between the "old guard" who are normally familiar with multiple editions, and the many new players who only have experienced 5E because D&D never exploded onto the mainstream until after 5E.

There's the sense that these new players are only interested in playing one edition, which is really pretty random that's just something many presume but often isn't true. Another two big mental clashes is the clash over D&D becoming too homogenous and "Hollywood" (i.e. "there's one away to do it and you have to follow all the tropes"), and D&D over simplifying itself to the point that you feel limited during character creation and level up, just because someone might have trouble understanding the game if you had more meaningful and varied options.

Of course none of that is necessarily true but that is how a lot of more experienced players talk about things. They aren't entirely wrong either. Also it's worth mentioning that with all the new splat books over the years, 5E is no different from previous editions, and it's not like 3E or 4E instantly had a ton of extra options for kinds of characters to make and how to progress them, they were just as limited as 5E when they first came out. So a lot of the Old Guard's gripes with 5E boiled down to it being a newer edition that hadn't had time yet for lots of splat books to get published.