D&D 5E Is 5E Special

[Minigiant]

2 is not logical, and does not follow. Again, Pokémon, Power Rangers and Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. Still popular 30 years later with the next generation in my experience.

Pokemon, Power Rangers, and TMNT changed throughout the years to match the new group of kids.

I think in the new TMNT RAPHAEL is the leader for the first 2 seasons.
RAPH! The rude one!

That's my point. Long running fanchises who rely on new incoming generations tend to cater parts of their style to the preferences of the new gen. D&D 5e, more or less, waited 6 years to cater to people under 40. 5e only got away with that because it's 2022 and not 2008.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

2 is not logical, and does not follow. Again, Pokémon, Power Rangers and Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. Still popular 30 years later with the next generation in my experience.

And only because they have very dramatically changed. In ways that, believe it or not, significantly upset many of the older fans, while leaving the new ones blissfully ignorant.

We keep going around this circle. You are acting as though nothing whatsoever has changed about properties that are 30-50 years old, and that's obviously ridiculous. Unless and until you recognize that D&D will have to change, in some ways, whatever they may be, in order to keep up with the new demographics, there's nothing further to be said.

Consider, for example, a smaller microcosm: MMOs. MMOs haven't been around nearly as long as D&D has (no surprise there, D&D inspired most of them.) Yet the field has already seen major changes. Take someone who's a big fan of FFXIV or WoW or GW2 and have them go play Ultima Online or an original, unpatched, day-1-release version of EverQuest. They'd hate it. And we can say this with confidence, because we've seen it happen with literal actual live games. Blizzard released WoW Classic--and it did decent! It wasn't as big a phenomenon as mainline WoW, but it brought people in, to be sure. It also had mountains of bug reports...about things that were intentionally included in order to be maximally faithful to the "vanilla" WoW experience. WoW Classic was a "warts and all" remake, and people genuinely weren't as enthused about it as they thought they would be, even though many of them had actually played "vanilla" WoW on release!

Point being, your ironclad confidence that absolutely nothing whatever has changed about gamer preferences in the past decade, to say nothing of the past 40 years, is completely misplaced. Some things will, most assuredly, remain the same. Other things will change. Neither you nor I have any idea which specific things they'll be. But we can be absolutely certain that, whatever the different preferences of the new blood, those will be what WotC chases. Because yes, preferences really can shift even within the original founding population--if you're legitimately looking at a new population, it would be ludicrous to the extreme to suggest that no meaningful changes will occur.

 

[Smackpixi]

1) By definition, you can't be a new player and old player at the same time.

Um, I am 47 years old, have been playing D&D for 2 years. Yes you can. You can also have played 30 years ago and life gapped and be very new to what the kids are doing today but loving it.

 

[Parmandur]

Pokemon, Power Rangers, and TMNT changed throughout the years to match the new group of kids.

I think in the new TMNT RAPHAEL is the leader for the first 2 seasons.
RAPH! The rude one!

That's my point. Long running fanchises who rely on new incoming generations tend to cater parts of their style to the preferences of the new gen. D&D 5e, more or less, waited 6 years to cater to people under 40. 5e only got away with that because it's 2022 and not 2008.

And only because they have very dramatically changed. In ways that, believe it or not, significantly upset many of the older fans, while leaving the new ones blissfully ignorant.

We keep going around this circle. You are acting as though nothing whatsoever has changed about properties that are 30-50 years old, and that's obviously ridiculous. Unless and until you recognize that D&D will have to change, in some ways, whatever they may be, in order to keep up with the new demographics, there's nothing further to be said.

Consider, for example, a smaller microcosm: MMOs. MMOs haven't been around nearly as long as D&D has (no surprise there, D&D inspired most of them.) Yet the field has already seen major changes. Take someone who's a big fan of FFXIV or WoW or GW2 and have them go play Ultima Online or an original, unpatched, day-1-release version of EverQuest. They'd hate it. And we can say this with confidence, because we've seen it happen with literal actual live games. Blizzard released WoW Classic--and it did decent! It wasn't as big a phenomenon as mainline WoW, but it brought people in, to be sure. It also had mountains of bug reports...about things that were intentionally included in order to be maximally faithful to the "vanilla" WoW experience. WoW Classic was a "warts and all" remake, and people genuinely weren't as enthused about it as they thought they would be, even though many of them had actually played "vanilla" WoW on release!

Point being, your ironclad confidence that absolutely nothing whatever has changed about gamer preferences in the past decade, to say nothing of the past 40 years, is completely misplaced. Some things will, most assuredly, remain the same. Other things will change. Neither you nor I have any idea which specific things they'll be. But we can be absolutely certain that, whatever the different preferences of the new blood, those will be what WotC chases. Because yes, preferences really can shift even within the original founding population--if you're legitimately looking at a new population, it would be ludicrous to the extreme to suggest that no meaningful changes will occur.

Sure, it changes: that's what 5E mixed perfectly, adopting to modern tastes while going back to what worked before. Which has also worked for those other franchises over the years. Tradition and progress go hand in hand, and have to ba balanced. Which D&D did not do well since...maybe ever until 5E.

And sometimes, going back is progress of the road is a dead end. WotC has a testing regimen in place that lets them iterate and adapt based.on market realities.

 

[Minigiant]

Um, I am 47 years old, have been playing D&D for 2 years. Yes you can. You can also have played 30 years ago and life gaped and be vey new to what the kids are doing today but loving it.

I was speaking about a single edition.

You can't be new player of 5e and an experienced player of 5e.

 

[Minigiant]

Sure, it changes: that's what 5E mixed perfectly, adopting to modern tastes while going back to what worked before. Which has also worked for those other franchises over the years. Tradition and progress go hand in hand, and have to ba balanced. Which D&D did not do well since...maybe ever until 5E.

And sometimes, going back is progress of the road is a dead end.

5e didn't adopt modern tastes in a serious attempt until nearly 6 years after publication.

I mean, 5e hasn't even published a new setting that isn't a MTG conversion yet.

 

[Parmandur]

5e didn't adopt modern tastes in a serious attempt until nearly 6 years after publication.

I mean, 5e hasn't even published a new setting that isn't a MTG conversion yet.

MtG is modern tastes. As Is the Forgotten Realms. Again, Pokémon, Power Rangers, Ninja Turtles. Just because something is 30-50 years old doesn't mean it isn't appealing to current tastes.

 

[Minigiant]

MtG is modern tastes. As Is the Forgotten Realms. Again, Pokémon, Power Rangers, Ninja Turtles. Just because something is 30-50 years old doesn't mean it isn't appealing to current tastes.

Forgotten Realms. Again, Pokémon, Power Rangers, and Ninja Turtles. changed with the times.

The 5e PHB, MM, and DMG, and VGTM was written with 70s, 80s and 90s lore.
The whole point of MGTM is publish 5e PC and Monster content with 2020s styles and flavor.

 

[Smackpixi]

5e didn't adopt modern tastes in a serious attempt until nearly 6 years after publication.

I mean, 5e hasn't even published a new setting that isn't a MTG conversion yet.

Anyone else notice that on dmsguild all the AL stuff pre 2019 is now tagged with the Legacy Content disclaimer? Mentioning cause your 6 years comment.

I’m not sure your point, but WotC is all about pleasing what they think gets new players in. existing can adapt or rant on the internet, most will adapt and giggle at those that tilt at windmills.

 

[Minigiant]

Anyone else notice that on dmsguild all the AL stuff pre 2019 is now tagged with the Legacy Content disclaimer? Mentioning cause your 6 years comment.

I’m not sure your point, but WotC is all about pleasing what they think gets new players in. existing can adapt or rant on the internet, most will adapt and giggle at those that tilt at windmills.

The original question is:

"if it wasn't 5E (pick a different edition, it doesn't matter) but all the other circumstances were the same -- a new edition in 2014, references in the media, Critical Role and streaming in general, etc... -- would D&D still be having a major pop-cultural moment?"

My answer was Yes. The circumstances of 2014 are perfect for covering an edition's weaknesses and pulling an edition to the mainstream due to the changes in tech, media, and culture..

2014 was perfect for covering 50 years of D&D fandom. Something 2008, 2000, or the other editions release dates would have been terrible for and required a ton more work.