Is a new GURPS version in the works?

[darjr]

This tiktok surfaced and it's very leading. A tiktoker suggests that Steve Jackson games should make a new edition for GURPS and they respond with a question about what folks would like to see in a new edition.



Personally I'd like to see a new version dispense with the defense roll and focus on a basic but complete set, even a boxed set, and build everything else upon that.

 

[Parmandur]

Hmmmm, that would certainly be interesting. GURPS 4E came out a looooomg time ago now, and that sort of universal, one size fits all system is not the current trend in TTRPGs. I loved the core setting of Infinite Worlds.

 

[darjr]

Apparently just asking for input.

 

[eyeheartawk]

I mean, I would start with a coherent base (like they had with 3E's core rulebook). Right now, a brand new person can be confused just what book is the base rulebook because of their naming conventions.

Beyond that, support would be nice. Their publication schedule for GURPS 4E really shows how much of an afterthought the game is now.

 

[Jer]

Hmmmm, that would certainly be interesting. GURPS 4E came out a looooomg time ago now,

That can't possibly be the case. Why I swear it was just a few years ago I was grumbling about the fact that there was really no need for a 4th edition.

/me checks the publication date of 4e GURPS

Huh. 2004. Welp, I'm going to find an ice floe to put myself on and float off into the ocean now...

and that sort of universal, one size fits all system is not the current trend in TTRPGs. I loved the core setting of Infinite Worlds.

I think what's out of favor is the pairing of complexity and toolbox that GURPS has. If you buy the GURPS rules you don't really get a "game" so much as a collection of rules that you can put together to make a game. That was a more popular thing back in the 80s and 90s than now.

I think "universal" systems are still being used, but they're being used by game developers who adjust the rules for you rather than providing a toolbox for you to make your own game. Like all of the Powered by the Apocalypse or Forged in the Dark games, or the Gumshoe games that Pelgrane puts out. Even Steve Jackson Games does this by putting out games that are "Powered by GURPS" that include the rules and setting together instead of just being setting books. (I would actually love to see them put out Infinite Worlds as a standalone game powered by GURPS personally. Pare the rules down to just the ones you need for the IW setting, include the appropriate character templates to choose from, etc.)

 

[darjr]

I agree, a full toolbox should be the secondary thing and stand alone tighter games should be the primary things.

Especially if it leads to the type of accessory/setting books of GURPS past.

Still the raw mechanics I think need modification. The presentation needs to be simpler yet more full than GUPS “basic”.

Also some streamlining needs to be done. For instance attacks should be much simpler to carry out in game.

 

[Parmandur]

That can't possibly be the case. Why I swear it was just a few years ago I was grumbling about the fact that there was really no need for a 4th edition.

/me checks the publication date of 4e GURPS

Huh. 2004. Welp, I'm going to find an ice floe to put myself on and float off into the ocean now...


I think what's out of favor is the pairing of complexity and toolbox that GURPS has. If you buy the GURPS rules you don't really get a "game" so much as a collection of rules that you can put together to make a game. That was a more popular thing back in the 80s and 90s than now.

I think "universal" systems are still being used, but they're being used by game developers who adjust the rules for you rather than providing a toolbox for you to make your own game. Like all of the Powered by the Apocalypse or Forged in the Dark games, or the Gumshoe games that Pelgrane puts out. Even Steve Jackson Games does this by putting out games that are "Powered by GURPS" that include the rules and setting together instead of just being setting books. (I would actually love to see them put out Infinite Worlds as a standalone game powered by GURPS personally. Pare the rules down to just the ones you need for the IW setting, include the appropriate character templates to choose from, etc.)

I'm 37 and have 4 kids, 4E GURPS came out before I started College. Dang...

SKG has put out some "complete games" stuff in the past,y sister was pretty pleased with the Discworkd RPG as I recall.

 

[Staffan]

I'd do away with one-second rounds and one swing/shot attacks. I mean, AD&D rounds of one minute are too long, but something in the 5-10 seconds range generally gives enough room to be able to talk, move, and do a thing.

 

[Grendel_Khan]

I'd do away with one-second rounds and one swing/shot attacks. I mean, AD&D rounds of one minute are too long, but something in the 5-10 seconds range generally gives enough room to be able to talk, move, and do a thing.

The one-second rounds also factored into weird mechanics, like snapshots for guns, and the expectation that if you don't spend a full turn aiming before firing you were a total idiot. Which is fine for the hyperrealism heads, but some of us are just trying to play a game (and one where combat doesn't take four hours).

 

[innerdude]

The problem GURPS has is that it's now too much beholden to its own design paradigm (much like D&D) to really go anywhere different without spurning its (miniscule) existing market.

The people who like GURPS are the kind of people who are married to the core system at a near-metaphysical level. Tossing out a new edition that makes broad changes negates the hard-earned system mastery that lives at the heart of GURPS fandom.

I gave away whatever GURPS material I had when I moved recently. Literally walked in to a local FLGS, dropped the books on the counter and said, "I don't want these. Feel free to take them and sell them, I don't even want store credit."

For me to ever consider buying GURPS material of any kind, they'd have to basically redesign it into something very different.

• Ditch the 3 core stats model
• Ditch roll under
• Switch to a flatter two-die bell curve instead of a three-die, or switch to a roll-and-keep system.
• Change to a 5-second combat round.
• Change the attack vs. active+passive defense paradigm.
• Consolidate skill areas

So yeah, I basically want nothing like GURPS at all . . . And to top it off, I despise "Infinite Worlds" style settings, both GURPS' version of it as well as RIFTS.

Bottom line -- People who actually want GURPS will want GURPS, and not something else. As a result, I suspect GURPS 5e when it rolls around will be closer to "GURPS 4e Expanded and Revised" than an actual edition change.

 

[darjr]

I like the one second round. I do think the mechanics each round is too high. Costs to much time at the table. But those rules are partly justifying a one second round, I do realize.

So I guess I wouldn’t mind if it goes.

 

[nijineko]

Speaking as a long-time member of Steve Jackson Game's MIB program, and current Cell Leader for a chunk of the American Southwest: there has been no notifications of any uptick in the version of GURPS.
We have been tasked to collect feedback from our communities; that is an ongoing duty for us MIBs.

 

[Eyes of Nine]

Defense roll - goodbye
XP system - move to a question system instead of "GM gives out for good RP"
Roll under feels bad - culturally "more is better", so rolling higher should be better
Add some sort of economy to encourage playing against the disads - FATE already does this, GURPS could do something similar
Speaking of FATE, what does GURPS offer that FATE doesn't?
Finally, an SRD and an open game license (elsewhere I've detailed my conversation with Steve Jackson when D&D's 1.0a came out and his response was a firm "no" - maybe that's changed?)

Otherwise agree with a lot of what has been said here

 

[greatgreenpanda]

The first one or two pages of newGurps would be a summary of all of the essential rules. Every other product or Worldbook would include this page and build out from it. It would contain a minimalist of rules and skills. For example the same skill for Ride, Drive and Fly (e.g. Pilot skill) in the essential rules and the skill could be defined further by the Worldbook (e.g. Ride for Wild West). The essential rules would be the default and easy to understand. All other rules after the essential rule page would add layers but stay within the design philosophy of newGurps.

 

[Blue Orange]

Speaking of FATE, what does GURPS offer that FATE doesn't?

They negotiated the rights to a huge number of setting books over the years. If those still pertain, I'd love to see a 'Greatest Hits of Scifi' book with the Horseclans, Humanx Confederation, Witch World...nobody's seen these for ages so they might be fresh.
If not, they've done Celtic Myth, Imperial Rome, WW2, Transhuman Space...FATE has the most material for new settings but GURPS has a huge amount of legacy material for standard ones like cyberpunk, espionage, even vampires....

 

[johndesmarais]

They negotiated the rights to a huge number of setting books over the years. If those still pertain, I'd love to see a 'Greatest Hits of Scifi' book with the Horseclans, Humanx Confederation, Witch World...nobody's seen these for ages so they might be fresh.
If not, they've done Celtic Myth, Imperial Rome, WW2, Transhuman Space...FATE has the most material for new settings but GURPS has a huge amount of legacy material for standard ones like cyberpunk, espionage, even vampires....

I like the idea, but I suspect most, if not all, of those licenses were for a set duration and have long since expired.

 

[Eyes of Nine]

They negotiated the rights to a huge number of setting books over the years. If those still pertain, I'd love to see a 'Greatest Hits of Scifi' book with the Horseclans, Humanx Confederation, Witch World...nobody's seen these for ages so they might be fresh.
If not, they've done Celtic Myth, Imperial Rome, WW2, Transhuman Space...FATE has the most material for new settings but GURPS has a huge amount of legacy material for standard ones like cyberpunk, espionage, even vampires....

Honestly - here's me being a broken record...

SJG gives us an SRD and then 3rd parties can do all the negotiating and take on all the risk for those licensed games. SJG can focus on "core rules sets" - and maybe internal settings and adventures wherein they retain all the IP

 

[Carlsen Chris]

The problem GURPS has is that it's now too much beholden to its own design paradigm (much like D&D) to really go anywhere different without spurning its (miniscule) existing market.

The people who like GURPS are the kind of people who are married to the core system at a near-metaphysical level. Tossing out a new edition that makes broad changes negates the hard-earned system mastery that lives at the heart of GURPS fandom.

I gave away whatever GURPS material I had when I moved recently. Literally walked in to a local FLGS, dropped the books on the counter and said, "I don't want these. Feel free to take them and sell them, I don't even want store credit."

For me to ever consider buying GURPS material of any kind, they'd have to basically redesign it into something very different.

• Ditch the 3 core stats model
• Ditch roll under
• Switch to a flatter two-die bell curve instead of a three-die, or switch to a roll-and-keep system.
• Change to a 5-second combat round.
• Change the attack vs. active+passive defense paradigm.
• Consolidate skill areas

So yeah, I basically want nothing like GURPS at all . . . And to top it off, I despise "Infinite Worlds" style settings, both GURPS' version of it as well as RIFTS.

Bottom line -- People who actually want GURPS will want GURPS, and not something else. As a result, I suspect GURPS 5e when it rolls around will be closer to "GURPS 4e Expanded and Revised" than an actual edition change.

There, there...the mean old generic universal roleplaying system can't hurt you...shhh

 

[Jer]

Finally, an SRD and an open game license (elsewhere I've detailed my conversation with Steve Jackson when D&D's 1.0a came out and his response was a firm "no" - maybe that's changed?)

If it has I would be surprised. The only game company that would surprise me more to move into the open gaming mindset for their core system would be Palladium. SJG has always been very protective of their systems - they were looser than TSR back when TSR was around, and have always treated fansites well as far as I can recall, but publishing stuff for their games means you need to go through them directly. It would be a big deal in my eyes if they shifted corporate direction on that.

Speaking of FATE, what does GURPS offer that FATE doesn't?

Fate and GURPS play very differently IME.

GURPS to me is for when you want to really get down into the details - point buy character creation, detailed combat where you break out the minis and hex grids, etc. Fate is all about glossing over details - small but broad skill list, broad descriptors for your character that you can use in different ways rather than individually buying attributes, combat that is more narrative and less into details.

Now GURPS does have dials, and in the past (pre Fudge) I definitely played in games where we dialed the dials back to as loose as possible, so it's possible to do something lighter weight with GURPS if you want. But at that point you're right - I'm personally just going to use Fate. In those sorts of games it just so much nicer IMO to have a couple of broad descriptors to play off of than to try to build up a character from lots of little ones.

I personally think the real question is what does GURPS offer that Savage Worlds doesn't. SW is in my eyes is the system that steps into the mix when I'm thinking of a general system that offers more detailed combat and character creation systems than Fate does for when we're feeling like busting out minis while not needing as much work on my end to pick and choose the dials I'm going to twist that GURPS requires. That's where I kinda feel that GURPS overall has lost me personally - if I'm looking for something more ticky-tacky break out the minis ruleswise than Fate I'm going to start thinking SW as my next stop, not GURPS (or Hero for that matter - the other system that historically we would have turned to to build our own settings).

 

[Lord_Blacksteel]

Lot of strange takes here on a game system that has been out for over 35 years.

If you hate the roll under, the defense roll, the generic-ness, then yes, GURPS is not your system and I would not expect a new edition of it to make any of those changes, frankly. It's like expecting D&D to go to a classless, level-less, skill-based system. Why would they do that, and why would anyone want that when there are numerous other systems in print that would be a better fit for that set of expectations?

"... what does GURPS offer that FATE doesn't?"
I have to ask - have you ever read through a GURPS book? It offers a ridiculous level of detail based on real-world measurements. It's pretty much the best example of the opposite of FATE when it comes to an RPG system that I can think of.

As far as the need for an SRD or an open license of some kind I don't see it. GURPS has never lacked for setting options or system options and given that it's a smaller system I don't know that opening it up would make any real difference. Steve Jackson has managed to keep a relatively small game company solvent and publishing a range of games for around 40 years now so I'll trust his and his team's judgement when it comes to that kind of thing.

I haven't run or played GURPS in years but the level of detail and the flexibility are features, not bugs, to its fans and they would be better served releasing an entirely new RPG than making the changes discussed above to a game that's been rolling down this road for this long.