D&D (2024) Is Cause Fear still a 1st level spell in 2024?

[Yaarel]

Wow. If this is a common attitude, I find it a little depressing.

Not going to affect my game, and if you're having fun, more power to you, but I still find it a little unfortunate if people not only no longer see any value in non-combat utility, but consider such things "pollution".

I am fine with noncombat spells, and I rate illusion spells and other think-out-of-the-box spells very highly.

But reread Hallucinatory Terrain and Mirage Arcane. I personally have NEVER heard of these spells ever being cast in the history of D&D by anyone. These spells are pollution.

 

[SableWyvern]

I am fine with noncombat spells, and I rate illusion spells and other think-out-of-the-box spells very highly.

But reread Hallucinatory Terrain and Mirage Arcane. I personally have NEVER heard of these spells ever being cast in the history of D&D by anyone. These spells are pollution.

Fair enough, if you just consider them useless in general, that's a whole other thing.

It was the reference to insufficient offensive power that threw me.

 

[Mistwell]

I wish the 2024 Players Handbook left out some of the spells from the 2014 Players Handbook. Heh, certain spells like Hallucinatory Terrain and Mirage Arcane are so offensively worthless they pollute the valuable page space of the new book.

Offensively worthless? Pollute the page space?

I've used Mirage Arcane as a DM to disguise a lair. I've never used Hallucinatory Terrain before, primarily because the area isn't large enough and it doesn't obscure structures within. I was hoping it would be improved.

 

[Yaarel]

It was the reference to insufficient offensive power that threw me.

Heh, I meant these two spells are so worthless it is offensive to even have us look at them.

 

[SableWyvern]

Heh, I meant these two spells are so worthless it is offensive to even have us look at them.

Ah, yes, now I see exactly what you were saying. Carry on.

 

[James Gasik]

I think the point is more that who is going to use hallucinatory terrain and why, as it's currently written?

Let's take a closer look.

"You make natural terrain in a 150-foot cube in range look, sound, and smell like some other sort of natural terrain. Thus, open fields or a road can be made to resemble a swamp, hill, crevasse, or some other difficult or impassable terrain. A pond can be made to seem like a grassy meadow, a precipice like a gentle slope, or a rock-strewn gully like a wide and smooth road. Manufactured structures, equipment, and creatures within the area aren't changed in appearance.

The tactile characteristics of the terrain are unchanged, so creatures entering the area are likely to see through the illusion. If the difference isn't obvious by touch, a creature carefully examining the illusion can attempt an Intelligence (Investigation) check against your spell save DC to disbelieve it. A creature who discerns the illusion for what it is, sees it as a vague image superimposed on the terrain."

Ok, so, you can't hide a person in here. And anyone entering the area is able to disbelieve it at once. Manufactured structures can't be changed, so you can't hide a building.

The area is much smaller than it was in past editions, affecting it's utility as well. You might be able to use it to create something for people to hide behind, like trees, you could use it to get someone to mistake a bog for safe ground (or vice versa), so you could lure someone into going someplace they don't want to (maybe into a pit, depending on how your DM interprets "manufactured structures").

You can't make a bridge appear to be washed out, and this would be largely useless in a dungeon or town (but probably fine in caverns). You're also gambling that the people you seek to trick are not familiar with the area.

So it's a very, very niche spell. I don't mind that it exists, and I think I'm going to have NPC's try and use it against my party in the future, but it's not something a PC is going to regularly prepare or go out of their way to acquire.

And since it's an arcane spell, it runs into the problem that arcane casters either have limited spell choices and won't be looking for a niche spell, or have no guarantee to get more routinely useful spells, so it becomes a late pick.

The issue of such spells is while they're great for the DM, the opportunities for them to be useful for PC's is low, and it leads to one of two possibilities: either the player takes something like this and finds it never comes up, which caused them to waste a precious spell choice, or they recognize it's narrow utility and avoid it completely.

So yeah, probably not a great choice for the PHB, and something that could be better in a supplemental book.

 

[Yaarel]

@James Gasik

Idiosyncratic "spells" should be magic items instead.

Like if there was a scroll or an item that changed the "mood" of a location, like thematic decorations for a dance, that could be fun. But not as a slot 4 spell (or 7 for crying loud!).

As you mention, if the slot 4 spell could completely alter the appearance of all "unattended" terrains, objects, and installments, even to the point of "vanishing" them or hiding behind the illusion, that might actually be useful. Players might pick it. (And it would be fun for parties too!)

Unfortunately, as-is, Hallucinatory Terrain isnt even worth choosing for a cantrip slot.

 

[James Gasik]

@James Gasik

Idiosyncratic "spells" should be magic items instead.

Like if there was a scroll or an item that changed the "mood" of a location, like thematic decorations for a dance, that could be fun. But not as a slot 4 spell (or 7 for crying loud!).

As you mention, if the slot 4 spell could completely alter the appearance of all "unattended" terrains, objects, and installments, even to the point of "vanishing" them or hiding behind the illusion, that might actually be useful. Players might pick it. (And it would be fun for parties too!)

Unfortunately, as-is, Hallucinatory Terrain isnt even worth choosing for a cantrip slot.

Even in AD&D when I could use a far better hallucinatory terrain, I greatly preferred the permanent illusory wall, as it could be employed in more situations. I wonder what sort of abuse the 5e team was thinking about when they weakened the spell.

 

[Shardstone]

I was surprised by how many Xanathars spells didnt make the cut into 2024. Even old school elemental spells like Pyrotechnics are now only in Xanathars.

A main consideration seems to be whether the spells were mostly redundant with the spells that are already in the 2014 Players Handbook. So, if Fear already exists, why add Cause Fear? Only spells that added something new and interesting seem to make the cut.

Some earlier 2014 spells seem to update by absorbing aspects of an unselected spell, like Chromatic Orb now randomizing analogous to the left out Chaos Bolt.

Happily, the subpar spells from Xanathars were left out.


Tensers Transformation stayed out, but this probably relates to martial/caster disparity.

Some missing Xanathars spells surprised me, like slot 9 Invulnerability, which is a decent and distinct option.


Some "psionic" spells, like Tashas Mind Whip and Intellect Fortress, also didnt make it, which made me think they might be saving these for a future Psion caster class.


I wish the 2024 Players Handbook left out some of the spells from the 2014 Players Handbook. Heh, certain spells like Hallucinatory Terrain and Mirage Arcane are so offensively worthless they pollute the valuable page space of the new book. Meanwhile, even many old school players dont seem to realize that 5e skills have completely obsoleted certain spells, such as the History skill making Legend Lore pointless. Similarly, Telepathy related spells have stupidly high slots, when these features are fine for a species trait of a level 1 character, and work fine as a slot 2 spell. It would be better to leave these spells out rather than reprint them with their unworthy spell descriptions. If designers rethink one of these worthless spells, a future splatbook can publish it with its new description.

Hallucinatory terrain is one of my fave spells ever man, cmon

 

[Nikosandros]

I am fine with noncombat spells, and I rate illusion spells and other think-out-of-the-box spells very highly.

But reread Hallucinatory Terrain and Mirage Arcane. I personally have NEVER heard of these spells ever being cast in the history of D&D by anyone. These spells are pollution.

Hallucinatory terrain in 5e it is not a great spell, but in AD&D? It's very powerful. I've seen it used a lot.