Is D&D a heroic game?

[was]

depends on the people playing it

 

[blargney the second]

I've got a game going right now that's decidedly unheroic. D&D goes both ways.

 

[The Thayan Menace]

Logos!

If one finds that D&D isn't heroic because it doesn't model the entire myth, then they must also find that Beowulf's battle with Grendel isn't heroic, that King Arthur's questing knights and his final battle with Modred wasn't heroic, and that the efforts of Frodo, Gandalf, and company weren't heroic.

These stories are heroic because they happen within a well-developed cosmology and possess memorable characters. If they were reduced to episodic pulp fiction (like most D&D adventures), they would have less of a literary impact.

Still, you do have an excellent point ... and, yes, I do like Robert E. Howard and Fritz Leiber.

-Samir

 

[The Thayan Menace]

A Scrying Glass Darkly

depends on the people playing it

Agreed ... my "no" vote is definitely influenced by the long chain of antiheroic PCs (and inept DMs) that I have seen in action.

-Samir

 

[Wik]

At it's core, no.

There's a big part of survival that plays throughout the game that often gets in the way of heroism. Characters use whatever tactics they can to overcome obstacles. IN the last session of mine, characters surrounded an enemy and wailed on him from every angle (how is *that* heroic?), attacked a foe before it was even aware of them (and they weren't even entirely sure it WAS a foe), ran from several fights, stayed and emptied several treasure chests while they could hear combat in a nearby room (and they knew there were people nearby who could be rescued), and so on.

My group isn't particularly heartless, either - not as far as some groups I've been in. D&D *can* be a heroic game, but this playstyle requires commitment on both the part of the players and the GM. At it's core, dungeon-style adventures are not all that heroic.

 

[jdrakeh]

These stories are heroic because they happen within a well-developed cosmology and possess memorable characters. If they were reduced to episodic pulp fiction (like most D&D adventures), they would have less of a literary impact.

I agree that they'd have less of a literary impact, but I'm not sure they'd be less heroic -- you might get sick of hearing about heroics (and, yeah, I've been there for this very reason), but that's a consumer perception issue, not a game issue.

I think the one thing that can really make a game of D&D unheroic is a gathering of unheroic players (including bad Game Masters) -- but even this doesn't change the fact that, as written, D&D is heroic.

There is a big difference between "as written" and "as played". If the players suck, it doesn't mean that D&D is unheroic as written -- it means that the players suck

 

[Thanee]

D&D is definitely better-suited for heroic gaming, so I voted yes.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Ciaran]

Certainly it's heroic... in the classic Hellenic sense.

 

[rounser]

There's a big part of survival that plays throughout the game that often gets in the way of heroism.

If that's the case, maybe consider making your game a bit easier so that PCs won't be driven to drastic measures on a consistent basis just to get by? Or are they overestimating the threat?

 

[Dark Seraph]

I think the fundamental question is: What is Heroic and what does that mean to you?

It is the sort of question that will inevitably draw answers that will be subjective to each gamer.

D&D and most RPGs, I think, is whatever you want it to be.

nuff' said!
DS.