D&D 5E Is Duellist style too good without feats.

[Todd Roybark]

Mastermind Rogue can grant advantage at will and I've seen them in play.

To a creature w/in 30’. So not likely to be appropriate at long range for archers, unless the Mastermind is being a spotter for the shot. Not impossible, but it will be a situational option.

Same for a 5 person party with an Archer Fighter, 3 Spellcasters and a Mastermind Rogue all “super buffing” the archer. Not impossible but the limiting factor is getting the group to play along, again situational.

Works in a CRPG game, but many players do not want their character to be the Fluffer in Chief

 

[Esker]

Same for a 5 person party with an Archer Fighter, 3 Spellcasters and a Mastermind Rogue all “super buffing” the archer. Not impossible but the limiting factor is getting the group to play along, again situational.

It's not even about getting the group to play along. Even if everyone is completely egoless and willing to devote their resources to buffing you if it's the way that they can contribute the most to the party as a whole, I'm not sure that's going to be true that often.

 

[Zardnaar]

To a creature w/in 30’. So not likely to be appropriate at long range for archers, unless the Mastermind is being a spotter for the shot. Not impossible, but it will be a situational option.

Same for a 5 person party with an Archer Fighter, 3 Spellcasters and a Mastermind Rogue all “super buffing” the archer. Not impossible but the limiting factor is getting the group to play along, again situational.

Main point is getting buffed is trivially easy in 5E. Not hard to be buffed every round via bless or whatever which every cleric and paladin can cast.

All bards and druids have access to faerie Fire along with some other classes.

 

[Esker]

Main point is getting buffed is trivially easy in 5E. Not hard to be buffed every round via bless or whatever which every cleric and paladin can cast.

All bards and druids have access to faerie Fire along with some other classes.

I think it's possible that those casters will sometimes be better off doing those things as a result of you having Sharpshooter than they are doing whatever else they would have done. But if they wouldn't already have been casting Faerie Fire or whatever, then you need to use whatever else they would have been doing as a baseline. In other words, whatever damage (or other benefit) they are foregoing by casting Faerie Fire (which, outside invisible creatures, has no other effect besides buffing other people's damage) instead of something else has to be subtracted from the gains you are reaping by having SS.

 

[Zardnaar]

I think it's possible that those casters will sometimes be better off doing those things as a result of you having Sharpshooter than they are doing whatever else they would have done. But if they wouldn't already have been casting Faerie Fire or whatever, then you need to use whatever else they would have been doing as a baseline. In other words, whatever damage (or other benefit) they are foregoing by casting Faerie Fire (which, outside invisible creatures, has no other effect besides buffing other people's damage) instead of something else has to be subtracted from the gains you are reaping by having SS.

It's a lot of oomph for a common resource- level 1 spells.

They also benefit from their own buff and can follow it up with guiding bolt, inflict,wounds, attacks etc.

You're not really casting faerie fire to reveal does that often. It's primary purpose is advantage feeding.

 

[Todd Roybark]

Zard, I agree it is easy to be buffed, but not trivially so...... there are opportunity costs.

Likewise, there are copious ways to be debuffed in 5e, negative impacts due to lighting ( Dim or otherwise), range, the target of the attack standing next to a warrior with the Protection Fighting Style, Windwall etc.

Advantage cancelling Disadvantage and vis versa is common in my experience.

 

[Esker]

It's a lot of oompg for a coomin resource- level 1 spells.

They also benefit from their own buff and can follow it up with guiding bolt, inflict,wounds, attacks etc.

Yes, it's true, if you want to figure out whether Faerie Fire is a better use of your concentration than something else, you should take into account everyone's gains, not just the Sharpshooter archer. Guiding bolt and inflict wounds might not be the best examples, since those are also 1st level spells (I mean, you can upcast them, but), and so every round they're using those is a fight they don't have Faerie Fire available. But Spirit Guardians should do about 21-22 damage per round if there are two creatures in it. It takes a lot of heavy hitting attackers in the party to net 21-22 damage per round by gaining advantage.

Typically you want to use your concentration on your bigger spells, and use your low level slots for instantaneous/non-concentration effects. At least once you get to level 5 or 6 or so and can use a slot above 1st level in pretty much every fight.

You're not really casting faerie fire to reveal does that often. It's primary purpose is advantage feeding.

Yeah, I realize, that's why I said "outside invisible creatures...", since that doesn't come up all that often.

 

[dregntael]

I'm not sure why we're discussing feats in a thread that's specifically about fighting styles in the absence of feats.

That being said, it seems my previous comparison was comparing apples to oranges because the baseline for each fighting style is very different. So let's try again and compare the combination of equipment + fighting style, with greatsword and chainmail as the baseline. At level 1, we have:

• Adding GWF style gives a 13% boost to DPR
• Adding defense fighting style gives a 8-14% boost to survivability
• Switching to longsword + shield and dueling fighting style gives a -5% to DPR in exchange for a 18-33% increase in survivability
• Switching to longsword + shield and defense fighting style gives -25% to DPR in exchange for 30-60% increase in survivability
• Switching to two shortswords and using TWF gives a 30% boost to DPR (but costs you your BA)
• Switching to a longbow and archery gives somewhere between -16% and +5% to DPR, depending on target AC (and of course gives the advantage of range)

I still don't think dueling is actually all that strong compared to the other fighting styles.

 

[Don Durito]

What does calculating percentages tell u Ts? The baselines are different. Wouldn't a focus on the actual numbers be more useful?

And I'd add what seems to be missed in regard to Defense style, is that the plus 1 only matters if you end up needing it and by how often you end up needing it. Being 8-13% more survivable doesn't matter all that much unless that's the difference between staying on your feet or going down.

So while the earlier poster was right in that +1AC is theoretically better for someone who already has a high AC, that character may already be survivable enough.

 

[Stormonu]

Still want to see two fighters/paladin's with protection style side by side.

I’m playing in a campaign right now - my Teifling Paladin (with Hellish Rebuke) and the owlman (aarakora reskin) fighter have this. The owlman’ s AC is 21, at it hurts to target me if you get past the protection. Our DM hates us in dungeons.